TIGSource: Incursion v0.6.0

Incursion v0.6.0

Derek Yu — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:55:00 +0000

Here’s to incomplete, awesome games! Incursion is an extremely detailed Roguelike that is “based on (but not strictly adherant to) the mechanics of the d20 system made available under the Open Game License by Wizards of the Coast.” This seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a good example of what we can expect in next generation of Roguelike games, although, like Dwarf Fortress, it also raises the barrier of entry for newer players.

One feature I really like is the inclusion of detailed descriptions of the areas you’re in. And they’re quite varied. In my first few minutes of playing, I encountered an old armoury, a flooded room, a kobold warren (which was quite scary – I had to crouch to fit inside), a garden, a ritual chamber, and a small fortification. I also got jumped by a dwarf rogue who appeared out of nowhere and had to wrestle him to the ground. Rogue players and fans of stealth will appreciate that currently they are the strongest class by far.

Unfortunately, the game is prone to crashing and there are bugs abound. The creator, Julian Mensch, is going to try to address those problems with a new release in the next few months, but admits on the Something Awful forums that after that, it’s going to be a long wait before we see any significant changes. We’re talking 2011, here, folks. Yikes!

Read about his plans in more details after the jump:

“I guess I should talk about my development schedule a bit. The sad thing is, at this point I don’t have a large amount of time left where I can afford to focus my spare time on developing Incursion. Part of the reason the release was a bit buggy is that I knew I needed to get it out and get this volume of feedback soon, to produce a polished version by my deadline. After September 8th, I’m going to have my hands full with other personal projects that I really can’t afford to delay, so Incursion development will be put on the backburner.

My immediate plans for Incursion are to try to fix as many of the bugs as possible to make the game play more smoothly, and to try to produce a working Linux port, both before September 8th. I’m not going to change or recode anything major at this point, because I don’t want to introduce new bugs after working so hard to get the game (more) stable for release.

I did have some plans for minor things I wanted to add before Sep 8 – mostly just a few new prestige classes, spells, feats and monsters – but given the volume of bugs reported I’m not sure anymore whether that’s going to happen before my deadline; I kinda doubt it, which is disappointing.

Once I get reasonably stable versions of Incursion out, my plan is to leave the game alone for about 6 months and see what a wider variety of people have to say about it and where it should go, being able to analyze it as its own beast rather than just in the context of existing RLs. I’ll maybe be able to squeeze out more work on it early 2008, depending on how my other projects go. Plans for the next “major” release 6 months down the line include unique NPCs, subraces and more resources (prestige classes, feat, spells and monsters). This would be a small amount of content compared to what is already in the game, and I can’t even promise it will happen; it depends on progress in my other work.

After my other projects conclude, probably about two years from now, I plan to get back to Incursion full-time and to start with major refactoring, working toward the design plan for Return of the Forsaken (random geologically credible overworld, random cities, 1-20 level range, plot, quests, better terrian effects, a more 3-dimensional map, guilds and social factions to design – basically everything ever promised in a next-gen vaporware roguelike). This is tentatively slated for release in late 2011, but keep in mind that I suck at deadlines.

To be honest, I’m very burnt out on coding right now and need a break, and I want to get a stable, fun version available for Win32 and Linux ASAP. That’s my immediate priority, not adding content. I’m sincerely sorry if that disappoints people here; I can see how enthusiastic many of you are.

OTOH, if you suggest things and I like them, I’ll certainly take notes—so it might make it into Incursion 4+ years from now! :)”

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Slash - Roguetemple Master

Mon, 13 Aug 2007 06:35:23 +0000

People is right, the big barrier for adding graphics to a roguelike is the ammount required to mantain and expand the graphics set along the project lifetime.

I think, however, that graphics greatly lower the entry barrier for new players and reduce the chances of a WTF reaction.

There are some ways I have seen work

Have the tileset been iconic instead of graphically detailed, so you can keep it updated with your punny lack of artistic skills as a programmer
Take the game to the heavenly stable status, specially in terms on content and only then acquire an artist ally and have him do the work, so the art set doesnt have to be constantly expanded
Use an existing open tileset (Gervais?), modify as needed, lose originality
Be a good programmer and a good artist, and a chef, and a god.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Calanctus

Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:41:18 +0000

UnReal World’s got pretty good tiles, I think. They’re big, bright, colorful, and it’s easy to tell what they represent.

Of course, good tiles are kind of a necessity in that game since there’s no ASCII option.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by trav

Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:52:50 +0000

I know what procedural graphics are, and I know that to write an algorithm that procedurally generates something that looks humanoid with distinct armor and weaponry would be a large challenge.

simple eg.
drawTorso(){//draw rectangle} drawArmor(){//texture rectangle with armor texture} drawHead(){//draw circle} drawWeapon(){//draw a line}

then try re-sizing torso-armor, have a look at programmatically generating the armor textures, figuring out how to draw different weapons.

lots of work high complexity, hard to get right

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Gr.Viper

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:26:02 +0000

ASCII-based can look quite lively too. Check Goblin Hack http://sourceforge.net/projects/goblinhack

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Madgarden

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:19:57 +0000

Simple, attractive icons (Chess) or artful stick-graphics (Seiklus, Legacy of the Ancients) would work great methinks, and wouldn’t be impossible for a programmer to pull off with a bit of guidance.

Fully fleshed out graphics can derail the imagination somewhat.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Skyleak

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:16:32 +0000

IVAN did and excellent job with “paper dolling” Even shows when you or an enemy has a limb hacked off.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Eudaimon

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:21:19 +0000

Tiles don’t have to be ugly, it’s just that typically in roguelikes they are. I think tiled Crawl looks pretty good.

And I think people may be misunderstanding the idea of procedural generation. Having a sprite that changes based on what equipment/stats/etc. are associated with it is not, strictly speaking, procedural generation. To do something like that someone would have to create different sprites for each possible state, or at least give them a different pallette.

Procedurally generated graphics are typically things like fractals, which would be damn cool to see in a roguelike, but probably not what you were thinking of.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Skyleak

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:30:39 +0000

Valley of Bizzaro?

Uncanny Valley?

"Incursion v0.6.0" by trav

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:23:41 +0000

ZP: A rogue like with procedurally generated graphics would be great.

Particularly if the system was built fairy well because then it could be applied to most rogue likes with minimal effort.

Ton’s of work to get it done though, very tricky stuff. (assuming you want complex graphics that varies from race to subrace to worn & wielded items.

also, I don’t think there’s a ‘backlash’ amongst the roguelike community, but I think a lot of them view a lot of the ugly looking tiles as detracting from the experience rather than enhancing it. Perhaps entering the valley of [damn, I’ve forgotten the word, it’s the idea of when something starts to look similar but is not quite so the small differences throw you off more].

I played Incursion last night and found that contrary to the article it actually lowers the barrier of entry for new players significantly from any other roguelike I’ve played. Ton’s of help, reasonable monster encounters, sensible interface. Read the white paper on his site, this guy has put serious thought into making the game accessible and fun

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Zetetic Elench

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:03:05 +0000

Rz: Would you say that even about more SNES-style tiles, like Shiren?

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/08/playajourneyto_tablemounta.php#more

I think tiles can be gorgeous, but they certainly do kill some of the player imagination that goes into roguelikes.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Rz.

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:15:57 +0000

a roguelike with no option to use ASCII sux. tiles are ugly as hell, i much prefer ASCII art than anything else.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Zetetic Elench

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:57:40 +0000

Zom.pixel: But you still have to design the art. Procedural creation isn’t a magic wand.

And the more complex the form, the more work it is. If you’re writing an algorithm to draw a man, you might as well just draw the man, because trust me - it’s a lot less work.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by ZombiePixel

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:34:22 +0000

I’ve heard that there is backlash amongst the “hardcore” players against rogue-likes that have graphics instead of ASCII art. Is that true?

It seems to me that even if you can’t draw there’s no reason a good programmer couldn’t write a few routines to procedurally create the art. Why isn’t there a neon-vector Roguelike?

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Rz.

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:45:47 +0000

this sounds fantastic, as i have a fervent buttlove for roguelikes! IT’S AWWWWWWWWRIGHT~~~~~~!!!

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Pragma

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:51:40 +0000

Trav: that’s right on the money.

Coders are the guitar players of the software world: they’re all over the place, and there’s always at least one looking for a group when you need one.

Artists, on the other hand, are like drummers: they are impossible to find becuase they (typically) rely on the most expensive equipment that a group could need, have to be damn good at what they do and achieve results that you can’t get any other way. They’re also never available, as they usually already have a steady gig.

So games like roguelikes are easy for coders to turn out, becuase of the time, energy and availability associated with getting good artwork done for a project.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Radnom

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 01:26:07 +0000

Well I’ll have to agree with your development time comment - but it would still make the games a hellavalot more accessable :D

"Incursion v0.6.0" by trav

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 00:29:30 +0000

Cheese mc cheesealessthanalot you are incorrect.

Dwarf Fortress has a bit of processing to it, but could easily handle graphics. As a matter of fact it is already implemented in OpenGL using a tile based graphics set which some fans have already started producing nice looking tiles for.

The problem is not in computer power, the problem is development time. Even if you don’t count the time to paint the pretty pictures there’s a code impact on having the pictures, you’ve got to handle things differently.

That’s why you don’t have rogue like depths on nice looking games. It just takes too long for most people to do. Especially single developers.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Gr.Viper

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:05:02 +0000

Yup, Vulture’s Claw is a graphical variant of Slash’Em and Vulture’s Eye is a front end for Nethack.

Incursion is great. But hard to start - I’ve been quite easily killed on the very first level. Didn’t descend any deeper but I like the screenies which show caves vs. dungeon - they look so different. Combat options “Avert eyes” and “Close eyes” seem quite interesting as well as those listening checks and monster identification. And the thing I liked most is the interface. Open, clear, nicely put into menus avoiding great number of key combinations. Great job!

"Incursion v0.6.0" by CheeseburgerWithoutCheese

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:39:39 +0000

I may be completely wrong, but with the amount of processing that’s done w/ Dwarf Fortress, for example, bring any modern computer to a crawl if it were in modernish graphics? (including pew pew lasers) But that’s Dwarf Fortress, which is beyond a normal roguelike. Then again, if you’re just looking for flair, then there are graphical front ends that provide an ascii-less approach. I can’t remember specifically, but I do remember seeing one for Slash’Em that I found pretty cool looking.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Radnom

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:25:30 +0000

Gahh, why can’t people make games with the depth of roguelikes, but with… graphics!? I’m all for restricted or limited graphics to some extent, but roguelikes are just impossible- for me at least- to get into.

"Incursion v0.6.0" by Derek

Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:16:44 +0000

Hmmm, the site’s not updating… testing!