Tim Langdell and EDGE: Part Two
Posted by Derek Yu Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:13:00 GMT
Now that Classics Week and E3 are over, I’d like to come back to Tim Langdell for a moment, because I personally consider it to be not only a fascinating topic, but also an important one that raises a lot of issues important to the community, including intellectual property and the role of the IGDA. A lot has come up since my last post, and unfortunately, it’s spread relatively thinly across a number of interesting discussions. I’m going to do my best to summarize and provide links to source material so that people can have a better understanding of what’s going on. I make no pretensions about my personal feelings on the matter, but please consider that anything that I say for which I do not explicitly provide a source are my own opinions. I will try to make it as clear as possible when they are.
Also, apologies to the readers who come here looking for news on new games to play and are uninterested in this story. There will be some very soon, and I’ll hide the rest of the post under a jump so that you can easily and quickly move on.
A Quick Recap:
1. Fingergaming posts an article revealing that the popular, award-winning iPhone game Edge has been removed due to a legal issue with Langdell. Mobigame’s David Papazian suggests that Langdell was also responsible for Namco’s Soul Edge being renamed to Soul Blade and then Soul Calibur in the United States. (Source)
2. Simon Carless posts an article on GameSetWatch in which he suggests that Langdell has a habit of engaging in lawsuits over his trademark on the word “Edge.” Carless also notes that Langdell’s Wikipedia entry, which is oddly detailed, has been mostly edited by a single user, Cheridavis, who may or may not be Cheri Langdell, Tim’s wife. Cheridavis had denied being related to Langdell, and had insisted that she (he?) was writing an unnamed book on the game industry and was posting information she discovered through her research of the book. Carless mentions at the end of his article that because of Langdell’s history of trademark abuse it’s unfortunate that he has recently been accepted to the board of directors for the IGDA.
3. Simon’s article is removed, for unknown reasons, but has been quoted on various other websites and forums. (Source)
4. Thanks to a tip from mklee, I read Simon’s article, follow his links, and decide to make a post about it myself here on TIGSource.
5. Langdell’s Wikipedia page is cleaned up and is now under neutrality and notability disputes.
6. Both the IGDA and the “Game Attorney,” Tom Buscaglia, respond, with Tom responding on his own behalf. The IGDA claims that it cannot take any action with Langdell regarding the legal dispute. Buscaglia calls Simon’s article a “hatchet job” and implies that Carless has reason to take down Langdell because of a rivalry between Game Developer Magazine and Edge Magazine. He suggests that, in order to keep his trademark, Langdell must actively protect it by pursuing legal action against Mobigame.
(Note: Buscaglia has since apologized for his “snide” remarks about Carless and insists that his implication of a rivalry was intended as a joke. He has also edited his post to remove the latter. In this author’s opinion, there was no indication of a joke in the original post.)
Tim Langdell and David Papazian Speak
Probably the most important thing that has happened the past week is that Langdell and Papazian have both spoken up regarding the controversy, in the comments section of Stephen Jacobs’s Gamasutra blog. Jacobs has been involved with the IGDA for at least 4 years and once worked with Langdell to try and establish an organization for game educators and researchers.
It’s probably best if you read the entire discussion, starting with Jacobs’s article. But here are the basic claims by both sides:
1. Langdell claims that EDGE Games informed Apple of the trademark violation, whereupon Apple sent a standardized notice to Mobigame. At that point, Langdell claims that Mobigame pulled the app voluntarily.
2. Langdell claims that it is, in fact, Mobigame that is bullying EDGE Games over the trademark. He also asserts that Mobigame started the “flame war” with the intention of causing him embarrassment.
3. Langdell claims that he has never sued anyone over EDGE trademarks, or ever started any litigation over the trademarks. Furthermore, he claims that “EDGE has never engaged in anything other than entirely legitimate practices to protect its trademarks.”
4. Langdell asserts that he has personally produced all of the several hundred games EDGE Games has developed or produced since 1979, and that every other statement he has made regarding his own accomplishments are entirely true.
(Note: Langdell, even when asked directly, has seemingly made no attempt to verify any of this, or even provide a simple list of games he has produced. Update: But if you go to the EDGE Games website and click “Videogames” at the top, you can see a list.)
5. Papazian responds to Langdell by saying that he has not made any comments regarding the dispute since the Fingergaming article and has no prior connection to either Simon Carless or Owen Good (who penned a Kotaku article about Langdell). He regards Langdell’s accusation that Mobigame is trying to cause Langdell embarrassment as a lie.
6. Papazian corroborates Langdell’s claim that Edge was voluntarily pulled.
7. Papazian claims that Mobigame offered to change the name to “EDGY” whereupon Langdell refused the offer and proceeded to register the trademark “EDGY”. Papazian also asserts that Langdell holds the trademarks “MIRROR’S SPORE” and “SOUL SPORE,” suggesting a connection to EA’s games Mirror’s Edge and Spore, and Namco’s Soul Edge.
(Note: Edge Games does indeed own those trademarks. You can look them up yourself here [EDGY] and here [MIRROR’S SPORE AND SOULSPORE].)
8. Papazian claims that Langdell has never given proof of his connection to Edge Magazine, or any proof that he has actively used the mark in recent years. He claims that the only person he has spoken to from EDGE Games has been Langdell.
On Langdell
Although I make no claims about the legality of anything that Langdell has done, it’s obvious to me that there is something very underhanded with the way that he operates. At best, he bends the truth. For one thing, there’s no reason not to believe what David Papazian has said, and, in fact, there is a lot of evidence to corroborate his claims (e.g. the trademarks Langdell has registered and the fact that there really is no evidence of Papazian or his colleagues commenting on the issue between the Fingergaming article and the Gamasutra blog post).
There are also many unproven, yet eyebrow-raising, reasons to be skeptical of what Langdell is saying. For one thing, there’s the whole dispute over his Wikipedia entry and whether he was personally involved. There’s also the “Mirrors a game from Edge” advertisement on the EDGE Games website, which seems purposefully misleading. In fact, if you use the Wayback Machine to look at previous incarnations of Langdell’s site, you’ll see that he’s pulled similar stunts throughout the years. My favorite is the EDGE Games jacket, which has a photo of a jacket with “EDGE Games” written on it in a red font. (Thanks to raiten for pointing this out.)
Plus, as the story has been spread, more personal anecdotes from people who have worked with Langdell have popped up, and they are terrible. Read this, this, and this, if you’re interested. It’s gruesome stuff.
Is anyone defending Langdell? Aside from Buscaglia, there appears to be a single anonymous person calling themselves either “Joe” or “mopius” who claims to be friends with Tim and is posting gems such as this on various blogs and forums:
Because of the Wikipedia dispute, there is suspicion that “Joe” is Langdell himself, but this is unfounded.
Plus, this. Seriously.
To date, Langdell has tenuous associations with and/or has claimed creative ownership of the following brands:
1. Edge Magazine
2. Soul Edge
3. Edge (iPhone game)
4. Mirror’s Edge
5. Edge of Extinction (Cybernet Systems v. Edge Games)
6. Edge Computers
7. EdgeGamers (game community)
8. The Edge (movie)
9. Edge (Malibu Comics character)
10. Koala Lumpur: Journey to the Edge
But it’s not obvious (to me, anyway) what Tim Langdell has actually created, aside from trouble for the various people who have had the misfortune of dealing with him and his trademark during its 30-odd years of existence. My hope is that, by helping to bring out the story, real creators can avoid him (and others like him) in the future. I don’t believe Langdell is a smart man, because a lot of his stunts are poorly managed and straight-up bald-faced – the only way he can succeed is if people are not knowledgeable.
So know your legal rights! As far as I know, trademark strength is not dependent on who “calls it” first, but on how you use it. I would love to hear a lawyer (who is not Buscaglia) comment on this matter.
Regarding the IGDA
The IGDA has taken the stance of “this is none of our business.” I disagree that it’s none of their business, and I strongly disapprove of their impotence regarding this issue. They are enabling people like Langdell when they should be helping to protect developers from them. Game developer/blogger Craig Stern sums up the situation very well. You can also see that the IGDA does have some rules regarding ethical behavior on the board and what they can do about it (scroll down).
You can sign a petition asking for Langdell to be expelled from the IGDA here.
Update: I’ve collected information regarding Tim Langdell and Edge Games here for easy reference.
I signed the petition, but looking at the comments I wish people would take the high road and act a little more mature about it, such as not saying “I wish I could take a shit above his head and watch my big warm fecal matter enter his mouth.”
“and you thought it was over, you thought there was no more to say, but you were WRONG!”
Tim Langdell is back in Langdell: The Edgier
Tom’s original post definitely didn’t sound “in jest”. The one statement was a sarcastic jab not meant in the literal sense, but the tone of the article overall made his “joke” just sound angry.
It’s silly for people at the Gamasutra article continue asking Langdell about his claims and for proof, because no matter what his response it’s clear that the community itself won’t accept it. They will either mark his statements as ambiguous or just false. Which, given his history seems understandable. It was probably a bad idea for him to respond to the thread to try and defend himself.
I think the next tigsource game competition should be edge-themed. All games should have the word ‘edge’ in the title. It should help expose Langdell for his trademark abuse if he goes after a bunch of harmless enthusiasts who don’t plan on making money from their edge games anyway. And everyone should make sure to put their names in big bold letters on their title screens so everyone knows exactly where the game came from!
I wish I could take a shit above his head and watch my big warm fecal matter enter his mouth.
Thanks for the link, Derek. :)
Very informative post!
@Jay
hit the forums! there’s already an EDGE compo going on.
ps. nice post Derek, It’s really pretty obvious when it’s all laid out on the table so clear-cut like this. Also, to those who tl;dr, definitely check out Craig’s post on his gama blog (last link of Derek’s post).
Jay, there is an unofficial compo going on if you check the stickies at the top of the compo forum.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=6580.0
@Jay hit the forums! there’s already an EDGE compo going on.
ps. nice post Derek, It’s really pretty obvious when it’s all laid out on the table so clear-cut like this. Also, to those who tl;dr, definitely check out Craig’s post on his gama blog (last link of Derek’s post).
As much as the practices going on here sound dodgy I’m willing to give the guy the benefit of doubt here.
However you did touch upon something that is, for me at least, a more interesting point - IGDA’s impotence.
About a year ago, frustrated with the state of censhorship in the video games industry, I contacted IGDA (I was a member at that time) and tried my best to pressure them into to taking a stand on the issue - something that was at that time clearly listed in their charter.
They seem unable to act on topics that should be extremely important to them.
IGDA = Impotent.
I like that.
@Jay hit the forums! there’s already an EDGE compo going on.
ps. nice post Derek, It’s really pretty obvious when it’s all laid out on the table so clear-cut like this. Also, to those who tl;dr, definitely check out Craig’s post on his gama blog (last link of Derek’s post).
“Papizian claims that Mobigame offered to change the name to “EDGY” whereupon Langdell refused the offer and proceeded to register the trademark “EDGY”.”
I want confirmation on this. Because if it’s true, it’s the smoking gun; no further info on his character is necessary.
The IGDA is full of it. Every organization is obliged to at least try and maintain legitimate personnel. If he’s a detriment to the industry he has no place in that organization- it only diminishes their legitimacy.
I truly appreciate this summary. I was wondering if anything had happened since I read your first post on the subject. Thank you
I wish I could take a shit above his head and watch my big warm fecal matter enter his mouth.
I wish I could take a shit above his head and watch my big warm fecal matter enter his mouth.
I just want to buy a copy of Edge, but I can’t because this guy is raising a dispute over his trademark of an extremely commonly used English word.
One of Edge Games upcoming games is called “Racers.” That’s the whole title. Did they trademark that one too? There’s plenty of games out there with the word “racers” in their title!
I was about to suggest an EDGE compo, but looks like I’m already late to the party!
Flamebait, check the comments of Stephen’s blog. There’s links to proof of the EDGY trademark being registered in the US on May 16th, as well as “MIRROR’S SPORE” and “SOULSPORE” being registered in the UK at some point as well.
Tim Langdell has also claimed creative ownership of Sledgehammer by Peter Gabriel and the motion picture Cliffhanger for “involving cliffs.”
thanks derek, light in the darkness =)
the petition is well and good, lagdell and the igda should be adressed. more importantly though, everyone should go and check out mobigame’s stuff and do what you can to support them once this mess gets cleaned up. edge is (in my opinion) the best iphone game yet released. in the mean time, grab the soundtrack. it’s great.
He also tried to register a trademark for a game he claimed was titled “World of”.
Wow. Just, wow.
I wish I could take a s…
nope he’s registered that too. Cut it out guys. I don’t want to see you get in legal brown water!
Wha? i’m so confused. what is all this? Seriously what ever happpened to a good old ass beating.
FYI, yes, trademarks are only protected as long as you are actually selling something under that trademark.
In fact this is part of the reason why companies like Pepsi will sell random knicknacks with their trademark on it. Trademarks are limited both to what you’re selling, and where you’re selling it. So if PepsiCo didn’t sell playing cards with their trademark on it, it’s (technically) possible that someone else could get away with it.
From the sounds of it, what this guy is doing would fall apart the moment it hit an actual court.
(I am not a lawyer, just educated.)
@Stegersaurus: Langdell single-handedly created the game industry before you were even a twitch in your father’s nutsack, maybe you should give him some respect.
@Erin Gardien: Thank you for the direction, good sir. I can confirm that Edge filed for the trademark “Edgy”. For the curious, go here ( http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm ), go on “search” on the right panel, and just look for “edgy” (you’ll find it, among others… doubt Langdell could actually protect that one). Filed May 16 by “Edge Games Inc CORPORATION CALIFORNIA…” Other blatant Edge misdeeds are also there.
@Ian Dunlop: See above.
It is possible to use a common English word as your trade mark, as long as you can prove it. After all, consider the words; “Doom”, “Quake”, “Unreal”, “Civilization”
We all know and these titles and they are trademarks too. I mean, you can’t call your game Quake, or Quaked or Quaker and so forth because the real possibility of confusion is there.
However, in the case of Edge and Langdell, I just haven’t seen any indisputable proof of actual usage within the last decade.
I’m surprised nobody else has mentioned that in his list of 756 games created, the games are actually duplicated once for each language and platform converted to.
I don’t know how other people feel about this, but in my mind, all those duplicates count for only a single game to me.
One of the games the company I work for is creating is on multiple platforms and potentially multiple languages, but there is only one game, not 30!
Id be highly interested in getting a count without duplicates in. In fact I might give it a go now.
Total games that Tim claimed to have worked on: 400+
Total games listed on the EDGE website: 756
Actual number of games listed: 107
Number of games in list not yet released: 4 (+ 1 game that is just invented - “Racers”)
Number of actual games listed: 102
Average number of actual games per website claims: 0.135
Average number of actual games versus Tim’s claims: 0.255 or less
Number of games released on hardware that debuted later than 1986: 6
Quantity of post 1986-hardware games that are for mobile phones only: 5
Ok, this list is going to be slightly innaccurate as I’ve just manually copied out the unique titles. I personally count 105 unique titles, nowhere near the 756 claim (depending how you look at it).
3D Mazenture 5 Stones of Anadon ACE ACE2 Activator Almazz Alien Syndrome All Stars Archeron’s Rage BattlePods Bobby Bearing Bongo Brian Bloodaxe Bug Squad Chess3D Classix 1 Colony Cosmic Swarm Cybotron Darius+ Devon Aire in the Hidden Diamond Caper Dracula’s Revenge Dragon’s Lair Earthedge European Five Aside Eye of Zolton Fairlight Fairlight II Fairlight The Legend Firebirds Firequest Galactians Garfield: Big Fat Hairy Deal Garfield: Winters Tail Ice Giant Jeepers Creepers Joust Jump Jet Kick Off Koala Lumpur Journey to the Edge Kong 64 KRIS Magic Edge Master Key Mazenture Megapede Meteoroids Microbot Millipede Mindstone Mirrors Monsters Monsters in Hell Moon Buggy Mr Payback Mythora Mythora 2 Ostron Out on a Limb PageMaker Pengu Pirates of the Barbary Coast PsiChess Punisher, The Quak Attack Quo Vadis Racers Repulsar Revelation R.I.S.K. Robotron Shadow Skimmer Shao Lin’s Road Skyrunner Slap Shot Snoopy: The Case of the Missing Blanket Softaid Softek FP Compiler (is this actually a game??!) Sofkit1 Sofkit2 Sofmon Soldier of Light Spectral Winter Starball Starbike StarBlitz Super Meteors Sword of Sodan Tangent Teenage Wasteland Thai Boxing That’s the Spirit The Artist The Artist II The Writer Tonic Tile Ugh! Ultrapede Warlock Wizardry Xecutor Xeno II Zaga Mission Zoids Zolan Adventure, The
Finally, I have looked through and only around 4 games appear to have been released on platforms created within the last decade. There are a few more modern titles, but they are marked as “Coming Soon”.
Was Tim just hoping someone would not actually look at the list of games and work this all out?
As far as the list of games on the Edge website goes, at least one of them doesn’t exist; the C64 conversion of Darius+ was never released.
At least one coder pitched to do the conversion, but whoever he dealt with at The Edge was going on about wanting the game scrolling into the side borders and even the demo coders hadn’t quite got that sussed.
More here: http://gtw64.retro-net.de/Pages/d/Review_Darius.php
[7. Papazian claims that Mobigame offered to change the name to “EDGY” whereupon Langdell refused the offer and proceeded to register the trademark “EDGY”.]
omg someone throw pixel at him until he cries like the bitch he is.
To add to Adam’s stats.
15 are reissues from other companies. 1 is a bit of a fib (Soft Aid contains an Edge title but was the brainchild of Quicksilva) 1 is quite possibly “spawned” in the Tim sense of the word ;) 3 are compilations
Minus another 1 from the game list, R.I.S.K and K.R.I.S are the same game, the name was changed after Parker brothers took Edge to court about using the name of its board game Risk, slightly ironic.
Glad to see everything we dug up re-posted, so it’s not just lying unnoticed at page 17 of a 35-page long forum thread.
If you’re interested in “throwing pixels” at Langdell and you want to take part in the compo without making an entire game, there’s always a collab you can take part in. All you need to do is three drawings, you don’t eve need to code or anything.
Awesome, good spot Jasper.
Someone should try and find all the names of the people credited on the games listed in his 756 games list (programmers, designers, etc.). Then try and reach those people one by one if they’re still reachable somewhere, and ask them for a comment on how it was working for Tim Langdell.
I’m sure a least a little more awesomeness would “spawn” from this.
If you search IMDB for “Langdell”, you see one item he was credited for as an executive producer (along with other executive produecers). It’s a 1994 game awards show.
[Sincere apologies if this gets 2x posted – I have trouble submitting posts with a URL.]
a game has been pulled and the IGDA wont step in?
what are they for then? consider any confidence I had in them severly knocked.
ok Derek, let’s talk about Langdell again… but STOP POSTING THAT FREAKING PHOTO >_<
I added the comic book character Edge and Koala Lumpur: Journey to the Edge to the list of Tim’s “licensees.”
I had a look through his list of games, also; if I had a bit more time, I could cross-reference them against sites like Lemon64, but the one game that I did check, Zoids, features no reference at all to Langdell or Edge: http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=2947
I had a look through the list of games on Edge’s site; if I had more time, I’d cross-reference them against sites like Lemon64. The one I did check, however, Zoids, seemed to have no reference to either Edge or Langdell, either in the cover, advertising or manual.
Zoids struck me as odd as well… claiming any kind of creative input into the budget re-releases is really pushing it since they would have arrived pretty much ready to go barring specific packaging.
i also noticed that Fairlight: The Legend and Fairlight 2 are listed on the C64 but neither was released, only the original Fairlight: A Prelude came out.
What a fucking embarrassment this man is.
“@Erin Gardien: Thank you for the direction, good sir.”
isn’t erin usually a female name? not everyone here is a sir
anyway, i agree with tyler’s first comment. just cause someone is a terrible person doesn’t mean you have to degrade yourself by the way you insult him. it really hurts more than it helps, since it gives langdell fuel for the idea that we’re just out to embarrass him as a person instead of objecting to his specific behavior
EDGE Games 530 South Lake Avenue, # 171 Pasadena, CA91101 US Phone: (626) 449-4334
Dear Tim,
Here are some other generic English words you might consider trademarking:
I would recommend trademarking and enforcing these asap. There are already shmucks out there infringing on YOUR rights, Tim. This cannot stand.
Sincerely, Chris Edgerton
Hmm… What if Dave Evans, “The Edge” or just Edge, (the REAL Edge) from U2 was as big an asshole as Tim Langdell? He could sue Langdell over the using his nickname or even a part of his nickname, (I’m sure there’s a loop-hole in there somewhere where he COULD sue Langdell) because America is the land of Sue-rs so I’m sure some shifty American lawyer could find a way to put Langdell on the spot and even get The Edge a retro-active pay day considering how long Langdell has been raping the word.
Go Dave Evans! Rip this fucker a new asshole please!!!
In all seriousness though, wouldn’t that be cool? Payback is a bitch!
Dear Tim,
On behalf of our client, DELL Computers, we must ask you to stop using the term DELL in your last name, namely LangDELL, as this is an infringement of our property rights.
We must also advise you that another client of ours, DC Comics, would like you to stop using the term ‘Lang’ in your name as this is an infringement of their character, Lana Lang, and likewise constitutes copyright infrigement, ipso facto, quad sum, etc, etc.
Sincerely, Edgerton & Edgerly Solicitors
I can believe Tim personally wrote 700+ games. Why, just the other day, I produced over 500 games myself. I was aiming for 600, but i had to stop and discover a cure for cancer. Then the pope came over for lunch and you know how he gets when.. EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE EDGE ..oh dear.. i seem to have a stutter in my buffer.. EDGE EDGE EDGEY EDGELY THE EDGE ON THE EDGE EDGE GAMES EDGE OF MY SEAT ..where is this stuff coming from.. EDGE LEDGE SEDGE PLEDGE ..it’s just typing itEDGEself.. Oh, God, please don’t sue me Tim!
What’s a jump?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Langdell/567906514
add him as a friend LMFAO
I think Langdell should fight WWE wrestler Edge for the rights to the trademark. If he wins we all then have to accept the word EDGE belongs to him. If he loses then he has to give up this crazy behavior.
a “jump” is a long-standing tigsource term for the extended part of a blog entry
@SteveO He did PageMaker too? Awesome, I remember doing my graduation thesis in PageMaker 7 (RIP and good riddance, long live InDesign).
It seems so… I somehow didn’t notice that one myself until you pointed it out. I guess I was on autopilopt whilst writing the list out.
Still, Producers aren’t exactly the most hands-on of people. I would hazard a guess that most projects, especially ones of a simplistic nature such as early computer/console titles could probably have done just as well with little organisation from producers. Comparing the titles to projects such as MMO’s today and the work required looks pathetic in comparison. (Not to bring down anyone working on simple projects, just to say I question exactly how involved you would really be in such a position when games were so relatively simplistic).
I should also point out I’m not having a go at producers in general either (before our own producer takes offense!), just this specific one ;)
Add Edge shaving gel to the list. I bet it really burns him to know people are using HIS baby to shear hair from their unappreciative cheeks. Or maybe he himself uses it, look at that goatee!
also, I triple posted here due to some AJAX hiccup last night, could someone delete two of them. Thanks!
I think it’s also a ridiculous that a trademark can be placed on a common word. If someone releases a game called “Edge”, that has no affiliation what-so-ever with a company that is under the name Edge, how can that possibly infringe on anything?
Here in Canada, there was a similar case years ago. If memory serves me correctly, I have forgotten the name though, but, in a small town, a small fabric store had the same problem. It had the same name as a restaurant, despite that the store’s name proceeded the words “Fabric Store”. They were still forced to remove it and even pay a penalty to the restaurant.
You know, I think I am going to trademark the word “Langdell”. I am now the owner of the future corporation: Langdell Industries. I will file a lawsuit against anyone who uses the word “Langdell” for the name of a company, a product or even a last name. Therefore, Langdell will be forced to change his last name, since I know own the word. Oh and I will also trademark the word, “Langdelly”.
I wrote a thoughtful comment with my signature, but it didn’t show up. Are the signatures being moderated now?
Is’nt Alien Syndrome just a localization of a Sega game, or does he claim he worked on it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Syndrome
sega is noted as being developer and publisher, so what was langdell’s role in all this?
Oh man, he actually is trying to create brand confusion with Mirror’s Edge?
I thought I was just joking about that.
BMcC: i don’t see the comment in the feedback area in the admin panel, perhaps it just didn’t get posted rather than getting moderated (due to a database connection problem or something)
Here’s something interesting:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/o33702.pdf
“Dr Langdell also provides examples of the way in which the trade marks have been used. He also claims to have used the specific trade mark “SOULEDGE” in the United Kingdom and in that connection provides details of sales of a game called Souledge which was launched in 1988 and which, he says, remains in the companies active catalogue of products for sale. The evidence of use of that game is dated Spring 1988, December 1990 and there are some invoices, dated January 7 1992 and August 28 1991.”
But the game ‘Souledge’ is not on the Edge Games list.
Is this petition gonna be in any way legal for the IGDA? I would assume that we need to limit the petition to actual IGDA members to get langdell kicked out.
if it’s any consolation, i hear there’s talk at the IGDA of actually having him step down.
he’s becoming too big of an embarrassment to them.
honestly, if i was still an IGDA member, id cancel my membership and make sure they know i did.
Since I read about this entire debacle on the web I bought Mirrors Edge (the EA version LOL) and loved it.
Screw you Langdell. Brb, trademarking Langdell Games and about to file lawsuit.
It’s not a lawsuit, its a filing of trademark opposition before a council or agency!
lol
So, basically: If you’re an indie developer and you don’t give the IGDA money then they’ll fuck you up…is that what’s happened here?
(PS: Edge magazine can f**k right off if they’re afilliated with this Langdell asshole!)
Any affiliation Langdell would have with Edge Magazine is just the result of him suing them as well.
Also I’m pretty confident that Langdell would be fucking up Mobigames even if they were members, I really doubt he gives a shit who he’s squeezing money from.
“Any affiliation Langdell would have with Edge Magazine is just the result of him suing them as well.”
Indeed, but there’s maybe some collateral damage to the magazine’s brand…when I look at a copy of Edge now, the thought that “this is something to do with that guy that’s an asshole” is lingering somewhere in my mind.
As for the IGDA: TBH, I didn’t really know anything about them before this Edge stuff kicked off…thanks to Langdell I’ll probably never be able take them seriously - I know that’s not fair, but that’s how people’s minds work.
@Paul: I mean on the petition. :P
Wait. Ivan, you can’t trademark “Langdell Games”, since I am trademarking the words “Langdell” and “Langdelly” for good measure. I would suggest naming your company: “Langdouchebag Games”. If you want to use the word “Langdell”, you will have to pay me a sum of $7 Gillion with a 56%/annum fee to cover royalties. Also, you will be required to address me as one of the following: God, King, Master of the Universe or Number One.
Can we please make the EDGE compo an official compo?
I like that we have one, sure, but it just isn’t the same as having an official compo which is sure most of us had in mind.
Here’s the plan. Make a game called “Dong Edge”, and make it the most vile, worthless, terrible game ever. Then sell it. Then see if he disputes trademark over it. It’d be awesome if he associated himself with it.
@Paul Eres: “isn’t erin usually a female name? not everyone here is a sir”
I recall it usually being a man’s name, and most people here are men. It was the best prediction I could make.
Thank you Adam Atomic, SteveO, TMR, and RobF for the info on his BS games list. What are we supposed to do about this guy though? It’s not like we can boycott his new products, as there’s little-to-no evidence for their existence. Kick him out of the IGDA and he’ll still live off other companies’ use of “Edge”.
I agree with everything said in this… Thread!
Seriously though, the laws need to be changed on Trademarks. If a trademark is filed for a common single word (that can be found in the dictionary), the trademark should ONLY be a allowed to cover either the affiliated company or product - specifically and NOT BOTH. That means that such a trademark can only cover a company/product name in the ONE single industry/sub-industry and category. So for example, if someone opened a restaurant called “Edge”, Langdouche could NOT do anything about it. If someone wanted to title a game, “Soul Edge”, and Langdouche only registered the trademark for the company name, he could NOT do anything about it.
It’s like another commentor (ether here or on another site) said, “This douchebag hasn’t been producing any games for the last 15 years. He’s simply been squatting on the trademark.”
Maybe this whole clusterfuck could become the catalyst to changing and tightening up trademark rules, applications and restrictions. Maybe that’s what we should all start doing. Start the gears turning for newer, tighter legislation. All this guy is doing, is as pointed out, squatting on a single word and raking in money from those who don’t want a lawsuit. He never has to work in the games industry again. That word is gold to him as long as there are so few restrictions on a trademark.
Actually, it’s not clear whether Langdell has successfully won a case in court. I feel like the problem rests more with the fact that no one knew much about Langdell before Simon’s article and/or didn’t understand their rights. Here is a repost of Alex Whiteside’s comment from the Stephen Jacob’s blog post that I think does a pretty good job of explaining basic trademark law (thanks to Greg Wohlwend for first posting it on the TIGForums):
I’ve been compelled to register to clear up some schoolboy-level misunderstandings of trademark law that are being propagated here. As a disclaimer, my own background in IP law is only as much as I’ve picked up on mandatory training (to ensure we don’t cause a legal fiasco in our jobs) and has more to do with patents, which are a much more cut-and-dry field.
The idea that someone can “register” a patent and then anyone who uses it is “infringing” is a common fallacy that comes from confusing trademark law and patent law. Trademark registration is simply a way of publishing your trademark so that others can avoid infringing upon it and provides no additional legal protection. If anything, it is for the legal benefit of others, who can avoid wasting money developing what turns out to be someone else’s distinctive mark. All trademarks, registered and unregistered, whether they have that little “TM” sign or not, are equally protected.
Trademark “infringment” is a civil offense that’s decided on a “reasonable” basis. Essentially, someone infringes on your trademark if their actions can be reasonably expected to lead to confusion between themselves and your business/products/whatever in practice. For example, if I release a product called “Coca Cola”, then obviously that will confuse any reasonable customer into believing that it’s made by the Coca Cola Company. You could argue that the product is a cheeseburger and not a soda, but that probably won’t fly because the “Coca Cola” name itself is so tightly bound to the Coca Cola Company in the public consciousness. I would obviously be trading off Coca-Cola’s reputation as a business.
However, suppose that tomorrow a children’s book company decided to call itself “Caterpillar”, with a cute little green caterpillar as the logo. That word is the trademark for a hugely successful and well-known brand of hydraulic equipment, and a great deal of licenced merchandise tying into that image. However it’s extremely unlikely that any reasonable individual would confuse the two companies. The word “Caterpillar” is not distinctive enough, and not unique enough, for that confusion to arise when the two companies are in entirely different lines of business. Therefore that would not constitute an infringement.
As another example, suppose you have a company called “Venice Blinds” that produces blinds to be sold under store own-brands. Another company calling itself “Venice”, and producing blinds, would likely be confused with the original by buyers for retail chains, and therefore that trademark would have been infringed upon. However a blinds company called “Spiffy Blinds” could put out a set of Venetian blinds called “Memories of Venice” direct to the consumer. Given that nobody in consumerland is aware that “Venice Blinds” exists, there’s no risk of customer confusion. If “Venice Blinds” was a household name, it might be that a reasonable person would belive that “Memories of Venice” was somehow derived from Venice Blinds’ product range, and we’re back to infringement.
As you can see, trademark law is very context-sensitive, and it is very much based upon the public awareness of the mark. Trademark law is engineered to ensure business cannot trade off each other’s reputations. It’s not like patent law, or a registered design, where someone is given an exclusive right to something in exchange for registration.
We have a special case here in that EDGE Games’ web-site attempts to present Langdell’s licencees’ products as his own, and therefore he is acting contrary to his obligation, as a trademark holder, to protect his mark’s distinctiveness. If Edge is his trademark, he is obligated to ensure that people know that those products were not actually his. In fact he is doing the opposite, and therefore his trademark is diluted. This would not lead to a very positive outcome if he was attempting to defend the mark in court: defendants could argue that his claim was in bad faith.
To exacerbate matters, he uses the distinctive marks of EDGE Magazine as his own logo and a huge amount of former EDGE Magazine website content (much of which still links back to www.edge-online.co.uk) for his own business, which means that in all likelihood he’s infringing on Future Publishing’s trademarks in the form of the distinctive EDGE Magazine “E” symbol, which is much more strongly linked with that magazine than it is with EDGE Games.
Mr. Langdell has no reason for accusing the Edge iPhone game of “copyright infringement”, as some sites have reported, which is an entirely different tort. I suspect mistranslation somewhere.
Flamebait and Paul, to get rid of any confusion, I’m a girl.
“Actually, it’s not clear whether Langdell has successfully won a case in court. I feel like the problem rests more with the fact that no one knew much about Langdell before Simon’s article and/or didn’t understand their rights.”
I’m sure many people never did- seems more likely that the “infringers” just took the monetary path of least resistance by settling, thus feeding this parasite.
One thing I wonder is whether anything fradulent is going on. There are no signs that Edge’s upcoming games actually exist. Edge doesn’t seem to be publicly traded, but if there are any investors at all, it surely has to be illegal if Edge is doing nothing with their money?
I don’t know how it works in other countries but i am pretty sure common words can’t be copyrighted. So the word ‘edge’ can’t be copyrighted, same apply to steam, windows, blizzard etc etc..
I remember many years ago Lindows (an alternative OS) won a cause vs Microsoft, the judge motivated that microsoft couldn’t copyright the word ‘windows’ beacouse it is a common used word.
I think he is just bullying, trying to win a jackpot, in court he has zero chance. Bye.
Checked the games list he made, i refuse to believe he coded Alien Syndrome for Commodore 64..
Btw this is a pretty disgusting matter, i think i don’t wanna mess with this.. Next time i’ll ponder better if comment… lol
good luck to the guys with their game for iphone. cya.
Langdell’s site has probably seen more web traffic in the last two weeks than it has in the last 10 years.
Tyrone: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/edgegames.com Look at the 3 month change.
The guy’s a cocksucker… period!
again, guys, please stop confusing copyright and trademark. he’s not “copyrighting” edge. he’s “trademarking” it. two completely different things – is it that hard to keep straight?
Simon Carless’ article is back up at Gamasutra, with an explanation why it was taken down in the first place (you could probably guess why though)
check out the thread on the igda forum.
needs more cowbell…
http://www.igda.org/Forums/showthread.php?s=e5d893759e7edd3b7fcd8b74915fd193&threadid=35923
wow – so langdell threatened carless too? incredible
@Firesword: he probably didn’t code any of the C64 games, just off the top of my head Shadow Skimmer and the first Garfield were both by Mat Sneape, R.I.S.K. by Chris West, Tangent was Andy Merril, Soldier of Light by Ian & Mic Jones and so on…
One thing i’ve just noticed, the company that published most of the 8- and 16-bit titles was called The Edge rather than Edge Games.
@fucrate - Yeah, bought Games TM magazine the other day rather than Edge because of this.
Mythora and Mythora 2 are vaporware.
Mythora was scheduled to be released in 2004, and his website just stayed the same til his recent update, where he tacked on a 2 below it, pretty much using PAINT, like the worthless piece of shit he is.
Edge magazine have their lawyers looking into the fact that Langdell claims they have a partnership of sorts: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/edge/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15022
When exactly was the last time Edge Games published anything?
On February 29,2008, Plaintiff Velocity Micro, Inc. (“Velocity”) filed a Complaint against The EDGE Interactive Media, Inc. (“Edge Interactive”) alleging trademark infringement, false designation of origin and description of fact, false advertising, unfair competition, and fraud on the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. At the time Plaintiffs Complaint was filed, Edge Interactive was listed as a suspended California corporation.
i said it once and I’ll say it to you again, you’re all loony. you’re nutty in the head. just give this up already because you’re not going to change anything no matter how much you raise your voices. i doubt any of you are even members of the IGDA. then again like I said before none of you are even real game designers, you just act like you are on this crazy ass website. what a joke…
i mean seriously make a part 3 or even part 10 of this if you want, it ain’t gonna change nothing
er, I meant to put my name as joe not bob. and especially not as tom crap… i blew it
Well hello there, Tom. CRAZY ASS WEBSITE, eh? Get the fuck off then.
No, really. I’m sick of your passive-aggressive bullshit. We have LOADS of evidence. But you won’t believe it, and you’re CONVINCED that we’re somehow trying to ruin what shreds of dignity Tim might still be desperately clinging to. Is it all lies? Is it? PROVE IT’S LIES THEN.
Prove it and we’ll disappear. Poof.
Otherwise, go away.
so tom is joe (and now bob, lol memory fail) then. that explains everything
If the only upshot is that Langdell thinks twice before acting like a complete c**t in the future, then some good has come of this.
you think he gives a shit? oh no the angry kids on the internet don’t like him, oh my god you’re real scary. if he does read this he’ll probably laugh at how ridiculous this whole thing is like I am right now.
also play “calt reid” off keyboard cat lol, really keep crying about it, you’ll change a lot. this is just stupid..
May 30, 2009 Tim Langdell, his Trademark and the IGDA Filed under: Thoughts and Rants — Tom B @ 12:57 pm
This is a response to a comment by Tim SHea in my IGDA Rant story that was as follows:
Curious to know what you think of your fellow board member, Tim Langdell:
http://www.mygameloft.net/igda-board-member-tim-langdell-igf-mobile-nominee-edge-and-a-sorry-trademark-tale/
IMO, this is just shameful. The last time Langdell developed a game worth playing Madonna still had all her original body parts.
First, it is a totally punkassed remark about someone who has been making games since before you old enough to choke your chicken! Maybe you think that everyone in the industry over 40 should just walk out onto he ice flows…I mean really. Totally cheap shot there Max! At least he has game credits. So perhaps you should back off on and snide remarks.
I am speaking now for myself and NOT on behalf of the IGDA.
I have to say that this hatchet jobs aimed at Tim L. and at the IGDA have not done what any responsible journalist would do and ask Tim L. for his side of this issue (and yes I mean you Simon!).
This dispute relates to a company enforcing its properly registered Trademark (See below). While you or I may not agree with those laws related to Trademarks, they are what they are. Moreover, the IGDA represents the individuals who make games, not the companies that make them. So, although no one is more committed to independent developers than I am, this is a legal dispute between two companies regarding an alleged Trademark infringement. So, while I anyone’s effort to fight for the little guy, these matters are for the court of law, not for a court of public opinion.
I think this matter is obviously a bit more complex that Simon’s slanted article presented it (Keep in mind that Simon is the editor of Gamasutra and associated with Game Developer Magazine that competes directly with Edge Magazine, which Tim L. is associated with!).
As someone who has litigated intellectual property cases, I can tell you that these cases are never as simple as they might seem to a lay person, especially when one only has access to one side of the story. I suspect that if you had spend 20 odd years building a Trademark to brand your studio and games, and paid to have a Trademark registered, you might also feel compelled to enforce your trade name. BTW, if you do not enforce your Trademark, you may lose it. So you may want to also take that into account in your analysis!
This is hardly a matter for the IGDA either…Board members do not lose their legal rights when elected to the Board. I personally do not think that lobbying the IGDA to intervene or even take sides in a legitimate legal disputes not the right approach, even if one of the parties to that dispute is a member of the BoD!. If Tim’s position is correct (and I do not have enough information to determine that issue one way of the other) you are recommending that the IGDA support a party who has infringed a legal and enforceable Trademark. That’s just nutty!
I do not see that as a viable position for the organization under any circumstances. In any case, I do not see how Tim L. vigorously enforcing his legal rights as contrary to the code of ethics in any way.
Again, I am speaking now for myself and NOT on behalf of the IGDA or as an IGDA Board member. But as me, Tom Buscaglia, The Game Attorney.
Tom B
**’ Word Mark EDGE Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer game software, computer game programs, video game software, video game programs, computer game software that may be downloaded from a global computer network, video game software that may be downloaded from a global computer network, computer game cartridges to be used in computer game machines adapted for use with television receivers, video game cartridges, computers, computer accessories, plug-in boards, peripheral devices, flash cards, set-top boxes, cable modems, mobile game devices, handheld game devices, video game consoles, video game assessories, video game peripherals, augmented reality games, virtual reality games, games designed for use with mobile entertainment devices. FIRST USE: 19840601. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840601 Standard Characters Claimed Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK Serial Number 78807479 Filing Date February 5, 2006 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Owner (APPLICANT) EDGE GAMES, INC. CORPORATION 530 SOUTH LAKE AVENUE #171 PASADENA CALIFORNIA 91101 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Prior Registrations 1853705;2219837;7502940 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
——————————————————————————–
I can’t bear being a fat, old has-been. Even though my blog says I’m all done talking, I just can’t seem to shut up! Please, please pay attention to me! I want so badly to be relevant in the game industry. Oh, and your ability to masturbate is extremely important to me.
what if Tom Buscaglia was in fact the attorney of Langdell?
First, it is a totally punkassed remark about someone who has been making games since before you old enough to choke your chicken! Maybe you think that everyone in the industry over 40 should just walk out onto he ice flows…I mean really. Totally cheap shot there Max! At least he has game credits. So perhaps you should back off on and snide remarks.
Ah, perhaps you’d like to clarify just what credits Tim has then, Tom? The list on his own site seems to be more about what he’s published rather than had creative input into (and some of the titles listed were either incomplete or simply not released) so which did he actually design or program?
OMG
http://tinyurl.com/ljhyqe
Has anyone else seen King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters? Tim keeps reminding me of Billy Mitchell.
haha look at this:
http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?qt=adv&procstatus=All&pno=&propno=&qs=&propnameop=&propname=&pop=&pn=&pop2=&pn2=&cop=&cn=langdell
Wow, litigious much?
Did anyone else notice that Langdell’s company is “The Edge Interactive Media” until 2008, when it’s suddenly “Edge Games”? How can there be any issue with the trademark if “Edge Games” has never actually sold anything?
@Esteban
Awesome finds! This is still getting more entertaining.
I sent him a facebook message… Can I get sued for that?
Copied and pasted:
Video Games Between Tim Langdell and You
Blaise Canfield Today at 11:38pm Why do you hate video games?
Your message has been sent.
Excellent find, Esteban!
A large number of his claims have been dismissed ‘with prejudice’. And he’s currently disputing with Sony over ‘Playstation Edge’? Christ; good luck with that one! His claim against Namco is also on there, but oddly, the dispute is against the mark ‘Soulblade’, and it was dismissed. What happened with Soul Edge, then? Was it settled out of court?
Just out of interest, his LinkedIn profile says that his education was at UCL, but doesn’t go into any more detail. If he holds a doctorate, what is it in, and did he do his Bachelor’s degree at the same place he did his doctorate?
Sounds a bit suss.
News Flash. Trademark for “Aquariuma” awarded to Edge Games. Seeks damages from developer of PC game with similar name.
:P
The corporation that supposedly owns the brand “Edge Games” is The Edge Interactive Media, Inc, a company based in NY, NY. Their website is www.edgeip.com.
The site is a student recruitment site (no links to Edge Games). EDge Interactive recruits students to form “a team of developers, programmers and beta testers to create the proper skill set for a given project.” I wonder how Tim received his “Special Thanks” on God of War for providing testers?
It’s possible this is how Edge Games will develop any of its future properties, and how it will avoid paying any of the developers. Students, after all, are the least likely to have the legal resources to defend themselves from predatory parasites like Tim Langdell. The recruitment site is based in Ontario, CN.
I have some ideas for games, what do you guys think?
Edge of Edgecraft™ Edge Wars™ Edge Party™ Final Edge™ Half Edge™ Metal Gear Edge™ Super Edge™ Edge - Edge of Time™ Gran Edge™ System Edge™ Grand Theft Edge™ Golden Edge™ Edge of War™ Edge of Duty™ Edge Kart™
I’ve trademarked them all so don’t go stealing my ideas!
Okay, that Galactic EDGE stuff did it for me. The guy must be a copyright vampire. He hasn’t had a game developed in 15 years. His wikipedia entry is “curated” by cheridavis who may (not might) be Cheri Davis Langdell. How low can you get? But i guess it’s the legal system’s fault for being absurdly stupid over the copyright business. I guess the solution would be Tim Langdell’s idea (above). Decentralize and deluge the EDGE word with 100-200 minigames. Then, next time he goes to court, the judge can ask him, “Mr. Langdell, why do you choose to sue Mr. X but not these 200 previous attempts at blatant copyright infringement?”. On another note, compare Mr. Langdell’s attitude with this guy (from Wikipedia):
Regardless of the legal disagreements surrounding Lovecraft’s works, Lovecraft himself was extremely generous with his own works and actively encouraged others to borrow ideas from his stories, particularly with regard to his Cthulhu mythos. He actively encouraged other writers to reference his creations, such as the Necronomicon, Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth. After his death, many writers have contributed stories and enriched the shared mythology of the Cthulhu Mythos, as well as making numerous references to his work.
Open source in the 1920’s.
http://myhardwear.com/sitex/content_pe001.jpg
nsfw but something Tim could use