A Message to TIGS from Teh Internets

Posted by Derek Yu Tue, 12 May 2009 09:17:00 GMT


Posted in , ,  | Tags  | 208 comments

Comments

  1. cm said 18 minutes later:

    I… ah…

    Oh, fuck it. I’ll get the popcorn.

  2. hmm said 30 minutes later:

    this video isn’t perfect, it has flaws. I just had to say on the internet.

  3. Sergio said 33 minutes later:

    Derek, the repercussions of you posting this video on TIGSource will be felt for years to come.

  4. Derek said 37 minutes later:

    They said the same thing when I posted Cave Story, Sergio.

  5. Alex May said 39 minutes later:

    Be excellent to each other.

  6. Flamebait said about 1 hour later:

    This is going to piss alot of people off, because it’s not always clear precisely what kind of poster he’s caricaturing. I predict that yet another sprawling argument will follow.

  7. teh elite said about 1 hour later:

    Yes, you better not have anything bad to say about Braid because then you’re just a complaining retard.

  8. Renton said about 1 hour later:

    I love you, man.

  9. Renton said about 1 hour later:

    Seriously. I love you all. Edmund, c’mere, gimme a big smooch.

  10. jacksnappert said about 1 hour later:

    Hoooo boy. This… will be excellent.

  11. alspal said about 1 hour later:

    That was amazing!

  12. Clay said about 1 hour later:

    Totally awesome.

  13. ortoslon said about 1 hour later:

    Angry Angry Video Game Nerd Nerd? Anyway, I’m looking forward to responses to this video (starring Edmund, of course).

  14. Tyrone said about 1 hour later:

    Yes, be excellent to each other. Drink lots of water.

  15. Alex May said about 1 hour later:

    Cereal bars are okay, but a lot of them have large amounts of sugar in them. Don’t be fooled into thinking you’re doing yourself any good by eating them.

  16. lumpi said about 1 hour later:

    Citizen, it’s not your business to complain. Now go on and enjoy what we have provided for you.

  17. Yourmom said about 1 hour later:

    I don’t know about this childish form of repetitive humor. Obviously, from previous comments, a lot of people think it’s funny but after the first round of repetition it becomes quite boring. It’s a waste of bandwidth more than it’s actually any entertaining. You should edit it down to a shorter version and you may stand chance at making smarter people smile or even laugh. Sarcasm only works in sharp and compact laconism (yeah, look up that word in your only dictionary, you ignorant dehydrated masturbation addict). You shouldn’t try it (laconism that is) as you clearly don’t understand it. Also your tattoo is not symmetrical.

  18. poop said about 2 hours later:

    looks like someone got trolled pretty hard

  19. poop said about 2 hours later:

    no criticism allowed for my arty indie games thanks

  20. hide said about 2 hours later:

    hmm fun video. But why can’t people make commentary, (bad or good) on games ? Everyone like talking about them ! But sometimes some of them are talked really too much and some people start buying it with no good reason and then the flamewar begin.

    You should take it as a good sign, if your game is commented by stupid people that mean your game gained a really good coverage over the internet. =)

  21. gnatinator said about 2 hours later:

    EPIC.

  22. shinygerbil said about 2 hours later:

    special times begin:

    now

  23. torsion said about 2 hours later:

    Any possibility of comments on tigs going back to talking about games, rather than talking about talking about games?

  24. lansing said about 2 hours later:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrI7QUJfkvI

  25. Xander said about 2 hours later:

    TEE-EYE-GEE?

    That was quite a video. It had lots of videos in it, which I applaud as I enjoy the videos which are mostly video.

  26. Firesword said about 2 hours later:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkrtcruRsOY

  27. Yourmom said about 3 hours later:

    Firesword, that’s a bit evil.

  28. Firesword said about 3 hours later:

    lol

  29. Armyofnone said about 3 hours later:

    Holy crap. Most win video on the internet.

  30. betasword said about 3 hours later:

    The thing I like most is that he’s using AOL. That makes the trolling perfect. Not to mention the fact that his internet forums just so happen to be the email form.

  31. Phagy said about 3 hours later:

    Wow… that was very strange :/

  32. alex said about 3 hours later:

    this is not as good as these comments say it is

  33. Klayman said about 3 hours later:

    Makes me want to make a youtube video goofing on people who criticize youtube videos goofing on people who criticize independent video games on the internet.

  34. Nikica said about 3 hours later:

    Isn’t that…? Oh yeah it is.

  35. OhNoes said about 4 hours later:

    How come it’s so hard not to feed the trolls? This will make their day and Edmund will forever be their number one target.

    Congratulations!

  36. Paul Eres said about 4 hours later:

    haha

  37. Malasdair said about 4 hours later:

    can we change the ‘submit’ button to read ‘DURR DURR DURR DOOP DE DOO’?

  38. Corpus said about 4 hours later:

    beautiful.

  39. sinoth said about 4 hours later:

    +infinity to Malasdair’s suggestion

  40. Paul Eres said about 4 hours later:

    although the sad part about this video is that these people it’s about will take it as more evidence that indie game designers don’t want constructive criticism of their games, they don’t seem to know the difference between that and what this video’s talking about

    i think the best parts of this video is when he starts laughing randomly at what he does, it’s like a double laugh, one can detect both him the game designer and him pretending to be the internet critic in that laugh

  41. DragonSix said about 4 hours later:

    I was going to prove that this video has flaws and isn’t delivering the message very well, but you’re already mocking me in advance. So I’ll say something simpler:

    Without criticism, there is only complacency.

    And we don’t want that.

  42. Eclipse said about 4 hours later:

    Edmund D: stop being on teh internet and do another game. I want to play it and then complain the shit out of your work. ON TEH INTER-NET!

    Anyway, is Edmund pissed off with tig users or what? Fuck You D: TIG is the best place in the woarld. On the Internet.

  43. AmnEn said about 5 hours later:

    Well, way to go. Despite him having a point that there are trolls on the Internet, this will drive another thorn into the whole mess.

    Hello Paul, by the way: You still don’t seem to reckognize the issue people are having. No one denies the existence of such trolls. But; perfectly normal comments have been declared as retarded and aggresive behavior simply because they were not “pro that certain game”. That’s the issue.

    “this game sucks so bad, someone needs to die” <- Trolling “I don’t particularly like this game” <- Some Devs falsely regarding this as Trolling

  44. Corpus said about 5 hours later:

    It’s okay, Eclipse. Stay calm. Everything is going to be fine.

  45. MattX said about 5 hours later:

    Life sucks. Wear a hat.

  46. Guy said about 5 hours later:

    Well, they say it takes an idiot to know an idiot.

  47. Doctor for communication said about 5 hours later:

    “I don’t particularly like this game” <- Some Devs falsely regarding this as Trolling

    It’s not trolling, but sometimes it’s not helpful. Normally, people don’t post negative comments, unless, of course, they are asked to tell their opinion in one line. That’s also a reason to think that most of these comments are by people who are pissed off by positive comments. So, if we’re all for freedom of speech, much better (and honest) expression of that emotion would be “Damn, those positive comments piss me off for some reason. I hate this game because of that” rather than telling you don’t like it.

    I hope I’m clear.

  48. Doctor for communication said about 5 hours later:

    rather than telling something like “Oh, shit, this game suck. It’s so slow!”

  49. BMcC said about 5 hours later:

    “That’ll show ‘em.”

    Hahahaha

  50. Paul Eres said about 5 hours later:

    AmnEn: I really haven’t often seen any developer ever say something like that. If you’re referring to my joke about the first two comments in Spewer, I already explained (twice, I think?) that it was not intended as an attack on those comments, but a joke that the first few comments weren’t bad as was becoming usual. The joke was really on the comments from previous entries, not on those comments. I realize humor is open to misinterpretation a lot, but I think you should give someone the benefit of the doubt when they explain the intent behind their joke, not continue to interpret it as an attack on those comments even long after I explained that that wasn’t what I meant.

  51. Paul Eres said about 5 hours later:

    Eclipse: I think he actually meant the TIGSource frontpage comments, not the forums, even though he said “TIGSource fourms”. You don’t see as much negativity in the forums because people have to actually have names and accounts and emails and can be held accountable for what they say there.

  52. Doctor for communication said about 5 hours later:

    Paul, I don’t think he’s concerned with your comments. I think he’s talking about Edmund’s opinion on negative comments. I think he said he doesn’t appreciate negative one-liners or something like that, regardless if they are rude or a bit nicer.

  53. Alex May said about 5 hours later:

    Edmund’s stance does appear to be a little more hardline than Paul’s.

  54. Paul Eres said about 5 hours later:

    I kind of agree with Edmund that negative one-liners are rude and usually useless, but I agree with AmnEn that negative one-liners aren’t as bad as personal attacks and can sometimes be helpful too. But It’s like, say Jon Blow sees a comment on Braid that says:

    “It’s just a Super Mario Bros. 3 clone.”

    That’s a negative one-liner. It is a criticism of the game. But is it helpful? Can he actually use that to make his games better? It’s not like Blow will read that and suddenly have a revelation that he shouldn’t make Mario 3 clones or something and instead make something that will please that critic.

    Sometimes a developer can get useful info from negative one-liners though. For instance a common negative one-liner about Immortal Defense is that the person is confused and doesn’t know what’s going on in the screenshots/trailer. That’s helpful to me, even though it’s a negative one-liner.

  55. Guy said about 5 hours later:

    Well, here are the flaws of your video, eddmund. While you try to portray some indie gamers that comment bad comments on indie games. You are actually portraying yourself with this video. Because this video is exactly like a mean comment about a game. Only its you making a mean comment about gamers. So think of the gamer as a game, if that helps. You are criticising the people who play the games? Ok, thats your right to do so(although, I don’t like the idea of making fun of people). But you are no better than them, you are even worse. Because instead of making a few lines in a comment, you make a whole “video comment”.

  56. Paul Eres said about 5 hours later:

    @Guy: Well, at least Edmund isn’t insulting anyone specific, he’s more of insulting a particular form of behavior. So I think it’s different than a character attack on a particular person.

  57. jph said about 5 hours later:

    Its the internet-s- fools, gets it rights.., great video,. but it sucks! and cost too much, and was not fun,. and your such a premadona video developer who gets all the attention and you don’t deserve it,. because you suck,. loved the video though. I could make a better one,. but I am too important.

    Always feed the trolls, as with out trolls what fun are the internets..,

  58. Glaiel Gamer said about 5 hours later:

    Funny how there’s less trolls in this topic than in the blow topic.

    Also I like how the video essentially shuts itself off from criticism by making anyone who tries to point out its flaws look like who Edmund is making fun of.

    Well played.

  59. mirosurabu said about 6 hours later:

    Where’s Cactus in whole that story?

  60. Eli said about 6 hours later:

    .Yes. - You get those game makers on the onlines.

  61. Guy said about 6 hours later:

    Paul Eres, I am sure edmund had the intetion of insulting people, and not make them think “Hmm, maybe my behaviour is not appropriate, I better change my ways”

  62. contra said about 6 hours later:

    I definetely feel that the whole elitist you-can’t-critisise-my-gimmicky-game-cuz-it’s-art attitude is a way bigger problem in the “indie scene” then trolls. Every time I see anyone make a bad remark about some game (even when it’s totally well put and to the point) theres always a bunch of flames practicaly demonizing that person for having an opinion. The buddyreviewing and exaggerated defensiveness is counterproductive and leads to crappier games.

  63. Sninnyer said about 6 hours later:

    PLATFORMERS! YOU’RE ALL PLATFORMER MAKERS!

  64. DalaranJ said about 6 hours later:

    @Glaiel Gamer

    Why would anyone need to criticize it when it inherently metacriticizes itself?

  65. moi said about 6 hours later:

    This video suck, The lighting is so awful it makes my eyes bleed, I didn’t even watch half of it.

  66. bateleur said about 6 hours later:

    etc. wrote:

    “TWO THOSE PEOPLE ONLY EXIST TO MAKE HIS WROK BETTER”

    Clearly not necessary, since it’s already well known that nothing beats wrok!

  67. knollus said about 6 hours later:

    hehe, fat guys are funny, no matter what they do. hehehe.

  68. shinygerbil said about 6 hours later:

    lolol.

    shitstorm because a guy, said some words, because some other guys, said some other words, about a thing.

    it’s all just words and things really. lolol

    oh no i said some other words, about a thing. oops

  69. Paul Eres said about 7 hours later:

    “Paul Eres, I am sure edmund had the intetion of insulting people, and not make them think “Hmm, maybe my behaviour is not appropriate, I better change my ways””

    Actually it at least worked on me. After watching this video whenever I found myself even thinking about criticizing something I held back and realized it’d be stupid. Maybe this effect will only last a few hours, though.

  70. pnutz said about 7 hours later:

    This is almost as embarrassing as the “Indie Games Rant Session” from GDC.

  71. Xia said about 7 hours later:

    Hey! I know that guy! I may have occasionally read some of his posts!

  72. xerus said about 7 hours later:

    This video is funny, except that it’s the front page commenters that are the target, not the innocent TIGForums members :I

  73. toastie said about 7 hours later:

    Yay, if we’re going to feed the trolls, we might as well do it with video.

    hifive

  74. sparklez said about 7 hours later:

    this is the official comment on the posting of the video about the guy complaining about the behavior of people posting on a forum.

    Coming Soon!

    The video about the official comment on the posting of the video about the guy complaining about the behavior of the people posting on a forum.

  75. I dunno said about 7 hours later:

    I have no idea, really.

  76. heywood said about 8 hours later:

    Yep! Funny video. On the subject, I recently read an article on dealing with non-constructive comments. Seems like a simpler way to go than to try to crusade against millions of trolls, if anyone had such intentions.

    Might be a little bit far out for some, buy it or don’t.

    http://zenhabits.net/2007/09/how-to-accept-criticism-with-grace-and-appreciation/

  77. Tarwin said about 8 hours later:

    What we found with Scarygirl is that people on forums / blog comments were like this - people on Twitter were all “Wow, play this game, it’s awesome”. Strange difference!

  78. Guy said about 8 hours later:

    toastie, don’t you know that saying “feeding the trolls” is considered trolling as well? ;)

  79. Jonas said about 8 hours later:

    INWARD SINGING CHECK IT OUT

  80. Anonymous Duronymous said about 8 hours later:

    I fully endorse Malasdair’s suggestion. I believe TIGSource would be a better place with a virtual slap upside the head.

  81. I_smell said about 8 hours later:

    I played this game on the internet called spwerer it got 10 out of 10 alot but I can see that its obviously more like 9 out of 10 I mean what the fuck the main guy is a circle anyone can draw a circle I can draw a circle I could do that thats not hard atall you dont deserve recognition for something thats not hard, thats not fair, thats not fair on me and the hard things I do, on the internet.

  82. Eclipse said about 8 hours later:

    Corpus: i was joking :O but i think i’m not so good at this in english…

  83. Renton said about 8 hours later:

    Any popcorn left, guys?

  84. Max said about 9 hours later:

    dude, mix down the room tone.

  85. Chris Whitman said about 9 hours later:

    For people who are still mad because “everyone at TIGSource hates it when you criticize Jon Blow” or whatever: maybe you should note that not every critical post is receiving a lot of angry responses. For example, there’s a big difference between:

    Example 1: “I didn’t really get Braid at all: it seemed like there wasn’t much to it. Why did you guys like it?”

    and

    Example 2: “Braid is a shitty game. In fact, I’m not even sure it is a game. There’s no gameplay at all. You’re stupid for liking it.”

    And all right, these are cartoon versions of what I’m talking about, but you get the idea. Example 1 is where we have a conversation: you say something, I say something and then we talk about our things. Example 2 is where you barge in and loudly declare that everyone around you is stupid.

    Also note that, in Example 1, you are asking a question. You are showing concern for what other people think. This is a good indicator to people that you are interested in actually talking about the topic, and not just declaring your opinion.

    In an actual conversation, people can even disagree with your opinions, and that’s okay. If you pull an Example 2, and people tell you that you are not being constructive, the worst possible response is, “You just hate it when anyone says anything bad about anything. You’re trying to restrict my freedom of speech.” Honestly, I don’t know what that is. Trolling? Total obliviousness to a social situation?

    Look, it isn’t hard to put some care into how you say things, and to try to engage people on the internet like there are actual people on the other end. Tons of people manage to do this every day, and I don’t think it’s beyond anyone here. I can’t believe I’m even having to say this, but just don’t be a dick. It isn’t actually particularly difficult.

  86. Chris Whitman said about 9 hours later:

    Aw, my comment got moderated.

    But yes, I really did write a simple guide on how not to be a jerk on the internet.

    It’s so simple that anyone can do it!

  87. BMcC said about 10 hours later:

    I ACTIVATED it, Mr. Whitman!

    Now you look silly, ho ho ho.

  88. phubans said about 10 hours later:

    Shit! Is this guy me? :(

    I… I never realized… OH GOD WHAT HAVE I BECOME?!

  89. judgespear said about 10 hours later:

    Is this about Spewer? I mean look. That whole thing was people overreacting to something that easily could have been ignored in the first place.

    Yeah, some comments on here don’t elaborate too much or can’t be considered detailed arguments. The thing is though, a comments section is not a review section. A comments section implies just that; “comments.”

    Kind of like if someone asks you to comment on the shirt they’re wearing.

    If someone asked you “what do you think about my new shirt?” Would you give them a long detailed review about it? I don’t think so.

  90. Chris Whitman said about 10 hours later:

    Curse you, McCartin!

  91. judgespear said about 10 hours later:

    Crap, this site is really messing up for me for some reason. It’s loading very slowly and my posts aren’t showing up the first time I post them.

  92. BMcC said about 10 hours later:

    I think it’s cuz I made some posts, I dunno. It’s super slow for me too.

  93. Paul Eres said about 10 hours later:

    “If someone asked you “what do you think about my new shirt?” Would you give them a long detailed review about it? I don’t think so.”

    The thing is, a game or a developer isn’t like a shirt. If you say “your shirt is ugly” you aren’t likely to hurt someone’s feelings because they aren’t their shirt and they didn’t make their shirt. But if they actually did make their shirt (designed it) and you tell them it’s ugly they’re liable to be offended, just as if you tell them their face is ugly they’re liable to be offended.

  94. Krystman said about 10 hours later:

    Looks like somebody can’t take critique. Here is a pro-tip buddy: if you don’t want people to bitch about your stuff, don’t make public. On teh internets I mean.

  95. Nemo07 said about 10 hours later:

    Ok, seriously? This shit needs to stop.

    I agree with going back to talking about games rather than talking about talking about games. Like judgespear said, this all started because Edmund and his cronies acted like big crybabies and threw a tantrum when not everyone was writing a doctoral thesis on the positives and negatives of his oh so glorious game about throwing up and then consuming said vomit.

    They’re called “comments” for a reason.

    There will always be people that will hate absolutely everything you do. This isn’t exclusive to the Internet. The best thing a person can do is ignore the unhelpful comments because feeding trolls will only cause migraines.

  96. the doctor said about 10 hours later:

    Kind of like if someone asks you to comment on the shirt they’re wearing.

    If someone asked you “what do you think about my new shirt?” Would you give them a long detailed review about it? I don’t think so.

    The thing is - nobody asked you about opinion. It’s an assumption, but if the author of the post or the person the post is about asks you not do something in particular way (like post a negative comment) I think that’s a fair mean of communication and should be respected.

    Sure, Edmund’s video is not that fair nor is constructive, but that’s possible outcome when people are dicks to people who can’t ignore dicks.

    It’s sad that meta-communication is popular topic on frontpage, but oh well.

  97. judgespear said about 11 hours later:

    If your feelings are hurt by things people say on the internet, then you really need to step back and see what you’re doing wrong or learn to ignore those comments.

    And don’t get me wrong, but I’m all for detailed arguments and the like but do they really belong in the comments section? If anything, talk about that kind of stuff on the forums, don’t try to force it in the comments section. I mean, look at what happens when you try to get someone here to elaborate on their little one liner sentence about the fact that the game didn’t load for them or they didn’t enjoy it? It turns into a meaningless discussion over nothing.

  98. michael said about 11 hours later:

    i like juice :)

  99. Kneecaps said about 11 hours later:

    This made my life. I need to buy Edmund a pony.

  100. judgespear said about 11 hours later:

    “The thing is - nobody asked you about opinion. It’s an assumption.”

    Nobody asked for a long detailed review on the game either. There is no way you should force or assume that everyone is going to give an elaborate reason as to why they didn’t particularly like or enjoy something.

  101. judgespear said about 11 hours later:

    I meant could not should there. typo

  102. JasonPickering said about 11 hours later:

    Get that man a Fruit Basket, he deserves it.

  103. Chris Whitman said about 11 hours later:

    “If your feelings are hurt by things people say on the internet, then you really need to step back and see what you’re doing wrong or learn to ignore those comments.”

    Look, man, people need to take responsibility for the things they say. Sure, that goes for people who might overreact when their feelings are hurt, but it also goes for the people stomping around declaring everyone to be ‘crybabies,’ and the people who come out guns blazing the moment they dislike something.

    What I see here is a lot of people who have spoken rather harshly pushing the responsibility on someone else. If you make a comment and someone gets upset, sure, they didn’t have to get upset, but I don’t see anyone forcibly preventing the trolls from apologizing either, or trying to rephrase your comment in a less hurtful way.

  104. Chris Whitman said about 11 hours later:

    Erm, ‘their comment,’ I switched from the general you because it seemed very finger-pointing and forgot to change that.

  105. Chris Whitman said about 11 hours later:

    Just… before you make a post, ask yourself “Am I behaving like a well-socialized person?” and “How would I feel if this was directed at me?”

    It is really not hard. No one but you is responsible for what you type.

  106. judgespear said about 11 hours later:

    Chris Whitman: Guess what though? You don’t have to even read their comments. The old saying “don’t feed the trolls” still applies here.

    Yes, you should act that way. I agree you shouldn’t be an asshole. But don’t expect people not to be.

    At the same time, comments saying stuff like “i didn’t find this game fun” aren’t even being “assholes” in the first place. That’s a complete overreaction. I just think its silly to have your feelings hurt over something so small, something that isn’t even more than a sentence long.

  107. Dr. Miroslav Malesevic said about 11 hours later:

    Nobody asked for a long detailed review on the game either. There is no way you should force or assume that everyone is going to give an elaborate reason as to why they didn’t particularly like or enjoy something.

    Yes, that’s true - nobody asked. So, don’t bother to comment. Or if you really want to then take a responsibility for your comment and participate in fair communication. If author doesn’t feel right about your comment don’t try to hold a lesson on how to ignore your actions (which might be an ideal solution, though, but it’s usually not the right time for learning to be effective). When someone talks about co-workers in a negative way, it’s natural that to be assertive and clearly state that you don’t like that kind of behavior. Your co-workers may agree or disagree, but how would you feel if they told you that you should just learn to ignore their behavior?

    Sure, it’s possible that some of us who criticized trolls were a bit agressive.

  108. judgespear said about 11 hours later:

    “Yes, that’s true - nobody asked. So, don’t bother to comment.”

    By that logic then, nobody should be able to comment on anything.

    For everything else you’ve said, just who are you addressing really? Because if it’s towards me, you’re pretty much preaching to the choir. I agree with you. But at the same time, it doesn’t change the fact that there always will be trolls or people who don’t say nice things. Rather than getting so worked up about them, wouldn’t it be better just to ignore them or deal with them in a different way?

  109. Chris Whitman said about 12 hours later:

    Judgespear, I know. I think what is being overlooked is that the ‘trolls’ are individuals who are also making choices. They are not a force of nature – they need to step up, take some responsibility and start behaving like decent human beings. Sure, it makes no sense to say that people responding were forced to respond, but it makes absolutely no sense to blame someone for having their feelings hurt by someone else. Is that not crazy?

    Yeah, I haven’t seen any cases of outrageous response to “I didn’t find this game fun,” but if there have been I can’t say I endorse that. I think it would be overreacting to get mad about that sort of comment.

    I have seen a lot of “This game is boring” or “this game is stupid,” and in the Jon Blow thread, all sorts of bashing on how he’s unqualified to speak or everyone who likes him is somehow worshipping him or whatever. That is going to make people mad. Sure, they don’t have to say anything about it, but it hurts feelings in any case.

    All I’m saying is that people should think before they post. No one is restricting anyone’s free speech – coming to your house and saying you can’t say certain things – but on a site that has a community one should try to be respectful of that community. I really don’t think that’s too much to ask. No one needs to be a cowering sycophant, but honestly there are certain people who have been posting here who need to behave themselves.

  110. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    “Yeah, I haven’t seen any cases of outrageous response to “I didn’t find this game fun,” but if there have been I can’t say I endorse that. I think it would be overreacting to get mad about that sort of comment.”

    That was in the Spewer comments section, in which I spent hours trying to tell people to stop overreacting.

    I assumed the video which also was by Edmund was a response to that.

  111. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    As for everything else, like I’ve said, I agree with you.

    But I still think the best way to deal with trolls is not to feed the trolls.

  112. Dr. Miroslav Malesevic said about 12 hours later:

    By that logic then, nobody should be able to comment on anything.

    No, no, they should, but then they should follow certain rules and respect other people’s boundaries. You know, if author says he doesn’t like your comment and ask you to be nicer in future or be more constructive, then you respect that. If you don’t understand then you ask for further information and so on. That’s healthy communication. You know what I’m talking about?

    But at the same time, it doesn’t change the fact that there always will be trolls or people who don’t say nice things. Rather than getting so worked up about them, wouldn’t it be better just to ignore them or deal with them in a different way?

    Yes, I agree with that in that it’s the ideal solution, but I also think it’s rather impossible. What’s harder: to eliminate trolls completely or to learn to ignore negative comments like those posted on Cactus’s new game article? It’s hard to tell and I think the best solution would be to just assertively respond to trolls.

    If you think you can learn how to be less sensitive to negative comments I encourage you to write a how-to.

  113. Paul Eres said about 12 hours later:

    Of course it’d be better to just ignore them, but not everyone can do that when personally attacked hundreds or thousands of times for each game they release. If you’re getting death threats by email it’s hard to just say “oh well, it’s the internet, I’ll ignore it”. Even the most calm person will find it hard to ignore things like that. Game developers aren’t always more mature than game players, you can’t expect them to be saints and to just flip a switch and not care about anything said about them or their games. Especially when many of the people encouraging game developers to do that likely don’t have much experience with the same quantity of personal attacks that they’ve experienced. Some attacks will make people upset no matter how they try to resist it or count to 100 or whatever, and this varies between people.

    So in other words, while I agree that the optimum solution is to just ignore such things, that isn’t always possible. And I think there’s more blame to be attributed to the people who say such things than to the people who can’t ignore such things, even though both parties aren’t acting optimally.

  114. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    “Yes, I agree with that in that it’s the ideal solution, but I also think it’s rather impossible. What’s harder: to eliminate trolls completely or to learn to ignore negative comments like those posted on Cactus’s new game article? It’s hard to tell and I think the best solution would be to just assertively respond to trolls.”

    But that’s exactly what they want. They post comments like that to get an “assertive” response out of people. By responding to them, you’re pretty much allowing them to do what they sought out to do.

    “And I think there’s more blame to be attributed to the people who say such things than to the people who can’t ignore such things, even though both parties aren’t acting optimally.”

    But at the same time, this is the internet, where people can say whatever they want anonymously without even feeling anything about it (whether its responsibility or even empathy). Due to the anonymous nature of the internet, it’s pretty much expected anywhere you go on the internet for there to be trolls. I know it sucks, but you gotta learn how to ignore it because that’s the best way to deal with it. You can’t get rid of it, but you can let it not get to you and even ignore it.

  115. Nemo07 said about 12 hours later:

    Yeah, I haven’t seen any cases of outrageous response to “I didn’t find this game fun,”

    Are you serious? That’s what started this whole mess. Edmund utterly freaked when he saw the trend that not everyone is a nice/decent person on TIGS.

    I’m all for people being decent and not trolling, but it’s horrendously naive to think that people are just going to all of a sudden act nice to one another and always consider other people’s feelings because you ask them nicely. That’s never happened throughout all of human history and it’s doubtful that it ever will happen.

  116. Dr. Miroslav Malesevic said about 12 hours later:

    But that’s exactly what they want. They post comments like that to get an “assertive” response out of people. By responding to them, you’re pretty much allowing them to do what they sought out to do.

    They want aggresive responses, not assertive responses. Consistent assertiveness kills trolls. Ignorance on the other hand is a hit-or-miss because ignorance has no negative impact on trolls and expert trolls can keep trolling until they don’t provoke reaction.

  117. Dr. Miroslav Malesevic said about 12 hours later:

    And - people who usually post negative comments here are probably not real trolls. They are just negatively charged dudes.

  118. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    “They want aggresive responses, not assertive responses. Consistent assertiveness kills trolls. Ignorance on the other hand is a hit-or-miss because ignorance has no negative impact on trolls and expert trolls can keep trolling until they don’t provoke reaction.”

    It doesn’t kill trolls. If it did, there would be no problem here and the whole Jonathan Blow thing would be under 100 comments long. In fact, assertiveness is just as bad. Any sort of feedback in which you keep feeding a troll does exactly what they want, which is the disrupt and derail the whole flow of conversation.

  119. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    It doesn’t matter how you react. The reaction itself doesn’t matter whether its an “assertive” or an “aggressive” one. They’re just looking for a reaction, and just a reaction itself, no matter what it may be. The best thing to do is not to give them one.

  120. Chris Whitman said about 12 hours later:

    “… it’s horrendously naive to think that people are just going to all of a sudden act nice to one another and always consider other people’s feelings because you ask them nicely.”

    It isn’t like I expect everyone on the internet to read what I wrote and swear to be a nice person from now on, but a big factor in people’s behavior is often that nastiness is just not stigmatized on the internet.

    If you act to someone with outright hostility in person, typically you pay for it not just from that person, but from everyone else, who wonders why you are acting like a dick. We don’t have that feedback on the internet, and because we don’t have it, I think a lot of people may simply not realize how their comments actually sound to someone else.

    I don’t know, failing to respond to someone who’s having a complete fit can cause extinction, but it can also validate someone’s feeling that they are ‘winning the internet,’ so if anything I think the best response is just to target the behavior directly and tell someone to try to keep it reasonable.

    I’m sure some people are just jerks, but chances are there are some people who are just not cognizant of the fact that this is a community of people who work on things, and that those people are going to be upset (and rightfully so), if you just repeatedly insult things they’ve worked hard on. Since there’s nothing you can do about the former category, you might as well address the latter.

  121. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    “And - people who usually post negative comments here are probably not real trolls. They are just negatively charged dudes.”

    Either way, it’s the same principal. You should always take the high road whenever someone is trying to push your buttons.

  122. judgespear said about 12 hours later:

    *principle

  123. Paul Eres said about 12 hours later:

    I think the “high” road is to politely respond to people personally attacking you, treat them as people even when they don’t treat you as one, and if possible make friends with them. I find that works better and is a longer-term solution than just not responding.

  124. Chris Whitman said about 12 hours later:

    Well, Judgespear is correct in that the best way control someone’s behavior when they are looking for attention is simply not to respond. That’s basic psychology.

    However, I’m with Paul on this one: although it isn’t the most efficient or effective response, I think it’s only polite to treat people like people.

  125. moi said about 12 hours later:

    If someone can’t ignore trolls and bad criticism, they shouldn’t try to get out of anonymity. That’s life.Life is not all honey and unicorns.

  126. Tyrone said about 12 hours later:

    Wow, this is still going on?

    Paul, I disagree with you.

    “…And I think there’s more blame to be attributed to the people who say such things than to the people who can’t ignore such things, even though both parties aren’t acting optimally.

    It requires more effort to respond than to ignore a comment or person on the Internet. I hate reading forums and seeing posts from regular forum-goers to newer members, like “Use the search function!” Wasted energy.

    And as it’s been said, while most of these types comments aren’t constructive, but how many times do developers listen to feedback and make changes? It’s a two-way street.

  127. Guy said about 13 hours later:

    Well, its true, there are people behind the kebyoards. And your comments might irritate, make someone angry or even offend people. In a subject such as talking about a specific game, there is no reason why anyone should be offended. But obviously, the developer who made the game is in a lot more sensitive place than just by passers. I am certain many things that people will say about a game would piss off the developer. I think the main problem is when people are trying to state facts, instead of saying their opinion. “The gameplay did not appeal to me, because I get bored easily with puzzle games” Is better than: “Your game didn’t not succeded to capture the essence of a puzzle game” So I can really understand when a game developer gets pissed off when people try to “state facts”. But I think that edmund’s retaliation was not the right way to deal with it.

  128. judgespear said about 13 hours later:

    “I think the “high” road is to politely respond to people personally attacking you, treat them as people even when they don’t treat you as one, and if possible make friends with them. I find that works better and is a longer-term solution than just not responding.”

    Sure. But again, on the internet you can’t really make friends with an anonymous comment left behind by someone who probably has no intention of doing anything other than annoying the crap out of you.

  129. Guy said about 13 hours later:

    Ooops, ignore the double negative: didn’t not = didn’t

  130. judgespear said about 13 hours later:

    But even still, yes. I agree you should be polite though and treat people nicely.

    But you still have understand that there will be trolls and people who want to cause trouble due to the internet works and due to the fact that people have the ability to be a jerk under complete anonymity.

    Anyway, at this rate I’m pretty much repeating myself. But I think you get what I’m trying to say.

  131. Paul Eres said about 13 hours later:

    Oh, you’d be surprised how many friends you can make with people who attack you – I definitely think it’s possible. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. I think a big reason some people act like that is that other people treat them like that. They don’t really know how to act in any other way because all their friends may act that way to them. So being polite to someone like that and considering their words instead of arguing with them and dismissing what they say is often a new experience to them.

  132. judgespear said about 13 hours later:

    “Oh, you’d be surprised how many friends you can make with people who attack you – I definitely think it’s possible. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. I think a big reason some people act like that is that other people treat them like that. They don’t really know how to act in any other way because all their friends may act that way to them. So being polite to someone like that and considering their words instead of arguing with them and dismissing what they say is often a new experience to them.”

    Yeah, but I think you’re getting a bit off topic here.

    We’re talking about people who post stuff like “this game is not fun at all” and then the way people react to such comments.

    Just a little short comment like that. That doesn’t really leave much room for “making friends” or whatever you’re saying right now. Maybe if you were talking about in the forums with someone who keeps flaming other people, but in the comments section I don’t see how that applies.

  133. Cobalt said about 13 hours later:

    So disable the comments.

    Bam, problem solved!

  134. Miroslav said about 13 hours later:

    I think most people are aware of that. I am.

    I can go on and describe differences between troll and negatively charged dude. But I’ll ask in advance if that’s really necessary?

    I can go on and explain what’s assertiveness and why the Jon Blow article isn’t proving that assertiveness is not effective. But is that necessary?

    I can go on and mention some of the drawbacks of just ignoring things. But is that necessary?

    I think that your point was: learn to ignore. Which I don’t discourage. If you think people can learn to ignore comments such as ones posted on Cactus’s new game article, well, be helpful and find a way to share that knowledge with us.

  135. judgespear said about 13 hours later:

    “If you think people can learn to ignore comments such as ones posted on Cactus’s new game article, well, be helpful and find a way to share that knowledge with us.”

    Well, it’s more the fact that they didn’t and look what happened. Now if they did, things would be a lot different right now and we probably wouldn’t even be talking about this now.

  136. judgespear said about 13 hours later:

    Now if you’re saying it’s not something people can do, then I disagree with you. Because so far, this whole thing was started due to reacting to a certain few negative comments and nonsensical one liners that otherwise would have just faded into obscurity if people didn’t react to them in the way they did.

  137. Paul Eres said about 13 hours later:

    “Maybe if you were talking about in the forums with someone who keeps flaming other people, but in the comments section I don’t see how that applies.”

    The first step is usually to change the format. If it’s a blog post, try to switch it to the forums, or ask for their email or AIM handle or something. I agree it’s hard to make friends in a comment thread, but you can always move the discussion to an inherently friendlier setting.

  138. Miroslav said about 13 hours later:

    Hmm.. not sure I understand you.

  139. Lyx said about 13 hours later:

    “I think the “high” road is to politely respond to people personally attacking you, treat them as people even when they don’t treat you as one, and if possible make friends with them. I find that works better and is a longer-term solution than just not responding.”

    That is not “high” but simply “altruistic”. It is popularily considered “better” because morals tell people that being altruistic is good, and being egoistic is bad. My take on that is: Well, fuck morals, i’ll just go for what is fair and is efficient. Efficient is not wasting my time with people with whom no useful interaction is possible. Efficient and fair is to interact with people for mutual improvement. Compatible with marketing guidelines and morals? Certainly not. Honest, fair and efficient? Yup.

  140. Miroslav said about 13 hours later:

    @judgespear:

    Yes, they made a mistake. They transferred emotions from previous article over to the Spewer article.

    How to avoid making such mistake in future? React immediately.

  141. Miroslav said about 13 hours later:

    or start a new topic on forums.

  142. Renton said about 13 hours later:

    That’s some good corn. Buttery too.

  143. aeiowu said about 14 hours later:

    I loled.

    Everytime I’m feeling down about the internets, I shall watch this video and it will cheer me up. Thanks Edmund!

  144. aeiowu said about 14 hours later:

    I loled.

    Everytime I’m feeling down about the internets, I shall watch this video and it will cheer me up. Thanks Edmund!

  145. IceNine said about 14 hours later:

    All this drama is such a shame too because the true personality of TIGS is represented in the forums, not the anonymous front page comments. I second requiring a login to submit comments.

  146. Esquar said about 14 hours later:

    perhaps 5 comments max per topic per person?

  147. William Faulkner said about 14 hours later:

    Pee Pee

  148. Alec said about 14 hours later:

    Edmund is my hero.

  149. William Faulkner said about 14 hours later:

    I sod dis. Dis topic. Fromt page. I cad see this alec noW ON COMMETS! THIS THE “AGUARIUM” GUY I THIK!!! . . . . . . THAT GAME SUCKS!!! ABOUT OCEANS!!!1

  150. Anthony Flack said about 14 hours later:

    Yikes! That video wasn’t funny, but it was certainly hysterical.

    Okay, now take a deep breath… and relax. Feel the internet trolls just melting away.

  151. Alec said about 15 hours later:

    Edmund is still my hero.

  152. Chris Whitman said about 15 hours later:

    “My take on that is: Well, fuck morals, i’ll just go for what is fair and is efficient.”

    This makes the Frankfurt School of critical theory cry.

  153. Camozzato said about 15 hours later:

    The Jon Blow interview’s trolling was more about “who does he think he is to be talking about games?!” than about Braid. Trolls don’t get interviews, so they get angry.

    So many things to read, so little time.

  154. Dustin said about 15 hours later:

    If you like this video, you are probably lame. Not being sarcastic here, this was really lame. He got so worked up about people insulting his favorite games that he yelled at a camera for 6 minutes in a primitive form of satire. Stop letting cognitive dissonance make you angry, Seth Rogan! Honestly I liked you in Superbad but this is just pathetic.

  155. Lyx said about 15 hours later:

    “This makes the Frankfurt School of critical theory cry.”

    If that school was unable to differentiate between “something being the case” and “wishing that something be the case”, then it probably wasn’t all that “critical” after all.

  156. Chris Whitman said about 15 hours later:

    “If that school was unable to differentiate between “something being the case” and “wishing that something be the case”, then it probably wasn’t all that “critical” after all.”

    Oh snap!

    Actually, they were bright dudes. Max Horkheimer’s “Eclipse of Reason” is largely about the utilitarian outlook. You should check it out!

  157. Lyx said about 16 hours later:

    Well, what i tried to imply with my sarcastic comment was: that some people once said “morals should be about this and that” doesn’t imply that CURRENT morals ARE about this and that.

    So when you said that my earlier post would make those people cry, then you were misinterpreting “me considering current morals stupid” as “me considering ANY possible morals stupid”.

    Anyways, this is heading way off-topic. Thanks for the hint regarding the book.

  158. Llort said about 16 hours later:

    Hi Edmund

    A professional developer would see attacks of their game on the internet, and ignore it.

    Man up and stop being a cry baby. How you can take attacks personally from anonymous internet idiots is beyond me. By responding you are only encouraging them and making the situation worse.

    If you are driving down the street and someone yells an insult at you because they don’t like the colour of your car, what do you go? Go home and cry? Get out of your car and start a fight? If they are insulting a complete stranger then obviously they are an idiot and should be ignored.

  159. William Faulkner said about 16 hours later:

    YO! DIS A SHOOT OUT TO ALEC!! WHEN I! AM CALLING U OUT ON YU GAY GAM “ACQUARIUM!!!1 THIS GAME WWEAR YOU PLAY AS A ZORA AND GET PEACE OF THE TRIFORC (OR AS ALEC, CALL IT:‘“TRI”-DENT AND 7 SPERES’)!! ALL HE CAD DO IS RIP OF ZELDA LIKE WITH HIS OTHER GAME ‘BRAD’!!QUIT POSITING THESE VIDEOS TO PROMOTE GISH!!!

  160. Paul Eres said about 16 hours later:

    “A professional developer would see attacks of their game on the internet, and ignore it.”

    Then good thing we aren’t professional developers.

    Also, I never said we should be polite to trolls for altruistic reasons, the whole morality thing is besides the point. I’m just about the least moral person you can imagine, but I still think it’s a good idea to make friends with one’s enemies rather than ignore them. Just like it’s in a nation’s interests to make friends of its enemies rather than ignore them.

  161. William Faulkner said about 16 hours later:

    ETC YO NEED TO GET!!! GET HOME!!!1

  162. Alec said about 16 hours later:

    Edmund is still my hero.

  163. William Faulkner said about 17 hours later:

    isee u are posting a lot today etc?? they must have upgarded the badwidth on yoUR AOL TELEPHONE to 256FHZ!!!!!lol!

  164. lol said about 18 hours later:

    trying too hard

  165. Melly said about 18 hours later:

    Hey guys, this video is outrageous.

    Sincerely, me.

    PS.: I have not watched the video.

  166. Günter said about 18 hours later:

    You know what I think?

    I think you guys are taking this way too seriously.

  167. Dusty Spur said about 19 hours later:

    i <3 edmund

  168. Chris Whitman said about 19 hours later:

    @Paul

    “I’m just about the least moral person you can imagine…”

    Holy shit, you’re Cesare Borgia, infamous son of Pope Alexander VI?

  169. Chris Whitman said about 19 hours later:

    Wait, didn’t you die in 1507?

  170. moi said about 20 hours later:

    I shall come and fuel this discussion when necessary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-1OZafqe4

  171. Erik Briggs said about 21 hours later:

    Beholden! I haz an opinion

  172. Vince said about 22 hours later:

    Awwww cute, some game developer is angry and frustrated. Come here, you need a biiiiig hug!

    Ok after watching the rest of the video I have to say: Wow, you need help coping with critics.

  173. chutup said about 23 hours later:

    this is just one of those videos that feels like an extended tutorial

  174. alspal said about 24 hours later:

    this video makes me laugh every time.

  175. Firesword said 1 day later:

    The End?

  176. Bezzy said 1 day later:

    People who give me feedback always make me feel sad, because either it is nice, and I think they’re just being polite, or it is nasty, and even if it’s potentially constructive, I can’t see past the negative tone.

    Then, if I do get some positive, constructive feedback, you have to decide how to take it on board without feeling like you’re doing it for the wrong reasons: just to be polite, or because you’ve run out of faith in your own ideas. Or if you have to turn it down, you have to try not to offend the person whose feedback you have to politely disagree with.

    It is a mine field, that’s for sure!

    Learning to deal with feedback is definitely a skill in its own. I hope I will get better at it as time goes on.

  177. Mirosav said 1 day later:

    How you can take attacks personally from anonymous internet idiots is beyond me. By responding you are only encouraging them and making the situation worse.

    You are calling yourself an idiot?

  178. Paul Eres said 1 day later:

    @Chris: well, it was hyperbole. What I meant was that I don’t normally meet my own standards of morality and often fail to live by my principles. For instance, I set deadlines and then watch YouTube or play Starcraft all day instead of being productive. I say I will do things and then don’t due to laziness, sometimes for months at a time. Of course there’s a slight difference between supreme incompetence and supreme immorality, but that difference is just in the interpretation, in practical results and for all intents and purposes incompetence is immorality.

  179. Corpus said 1 day later:

    This discussion is less interesting than other discussions which I have seen on the internet in the past.

  180. Kvalsternacka said 1 day later:

    Boy, there sure are a lot of posts here!

    PS. Love you Edmund!

  181. ugh said 1 day later:

    tl;dw

  182. Josh said 1 day later:

    @corpus It was all the hype. Hype kills things. Kills them dead.

  183. Paul Jeffries said 1 day later:

    “Then good thing we aren’t professional developers.”

    There’s a difference between being non-professional and being unprofessional. This video is the latter. Here’s a crazy idea; if you want people commenting on games to act in a mature and responsible way, would it not be a good first step for developers to do the same?

  184. Paul Eres said 1 day later:

    My point was you can’t expect indie developers to be more mature than the people who play our games. We’re amateurs. So what you’re saying may theoretically work but is practically impossible.

  185. Paul Jeffries said 1 day later:

    Maybe not, but I can expect the people complaining about immature behaviour to behave more maturely that the people they’re complaining about.

  186. Anthony Flack said 1 day later:

    My only expectation is that people who post seven-minute video rants ought to try to at least be entertaining.

    I realise that, having never made a video rant myself, some people might feel that I have no right to criticise. But I’ve certainly experienced having my work ripped to bits by internet critics, and while it’s not pleasant, at least it serves as a reminder that I can’t take my audience for granted and become self-indulgent.

    Edmund may be a talented game developer, but his video ranting is sub-par.

  187. Paul Eres said 1 day later:

    @Jeffries: I agree, but telling people to act more professional usually doesn’t make them act more professional. Besides, I think funny videos are slightly more mature than anonymous internet insults; at least the former takes work.

    @The Claymaster: I liked the video though – it’s rated highly on YouTube too and has a lot of positive comments there so I do think many people enjoyed it. Not entertaining to you doesn’t equal not entertaining. My rule is that I should never (or at least almost never) judge the quality of something by my personal reaction to it, instead you get more of a measure if you use the average reactions of others.

  188. judgespear said 1 day later:

    “I agree, but telling people to act more professional usually doesn’t make them act more professional. Besides, I think funny videos are slightly more mature than anonymous internet insults; at least the former takes work.”

    Work that isn’t even necessary to begin with considering the latter could easily just be ignored in the first place.

  189. Paul Eres said 1 day later:

    It wasn’t necessary but it did provide entertainment.

  190. Anthony Flack said 1 day later:

    Ehh, people like all kinds of crap, just like they hate all kinds of good stuff. They can’t be trusted. Which is kind of what this is all about, I guess.

    I trust my own judgement as to whether something is good or not; I didn’t use to, but back then I recognised that I didn’t really have the experience to judge. Nowadays I feel like I do, that I’ve experienced enough of the good and the bad to have an idea of where something might sit on the scale. Although I’m always amenable to having my mind changed by somebody with a persuasive argument (as opposed to just a forceful opinion).

    In my not-humble opinion, the video fails by being too long, too repetitive, and not witty or cutting enough. It’s basically an extended session of “this is you: nuur nuur nurrr I’m a retard”. Heartfelt, I guess, but hardly a great piece of video.

    I suppose people who are sympathetic to the sentiments expressed may be more enthusiastic about it, but I can’t help but think of the example of someone like Charlie Brooker, who can spew bile for extended periods while being sincere and clever and funny and offensive all at once. That’s the gold standard of venting for me.

    In a way, this whole thing is weirdly self-referential. I think Edmund’s rant was lazy and needed improving. I guess he didn’t really want to go to TOO much trouble to make it, but then again, if you’re going to make something and release it to the public (even if it’s just a video rant) you should try your best to make a really good one. Or failing that, make it shorter.

    So as an audience member, I kind of feel like my time and attention was taken for granted a little too much. And here I am slagging it off on the internet.

    It’s all very meta.

  191. Elvis Brevi said 1 day later:

    wtf?

  192. undertech said 1 day later:

    200

  193. Lucien said 1 day later:

    Sooo… is this Cliffski finally having a nervous breakdown on the Internet because of the evil pirates and those who think his games are a tad dull?

    Because… well… it looks like it.

    Should we be starting a donation drive? For the inevitable and necessary rehabilitation?

  194. alspal said 1 day later:

    I’m glad most indie developers have personality. They’re almost like real people!

  195. Firesword said 2 days later:

    More than 200 comments?

    THIS IS SPEWERTAAAAAA!

  196. Prio said 2 days later:

    That was pretty funny

    Also bawwwsome

  197. Stink from Land of the Lost said 2 days later:

    Wow, way to go. Feed the trolls more. This kind of response is a sweet ambrosia for those who have elicited it.

  198. Kobel said 2 days later:

    Who cares if it’s feeding the trolls? No one should avoid doing something they want to do just because it might provoke an internet-asshole. Feed the trolls ‘til they pop, people.

  199. Zaphos said 2 days later:

    Like most fish, trolls are opportunistic feeders. When an excess of food is offered, they will produce more waste and feces, partly due to incomplete digestion of protein. Overfed trolls can sometimes be recognized by feces trailing from their cloaca. Trolls need only be fed as much food as they can consume in one to two minutes, and no more than three times a day. Contrary to some common belief, extreme overfeeding will not increase the size of the troll but can actually be fatal, typically by bursting of the intestines.

  200. SohpaZ said 2 days later:

    Yeah, definitely keep on showing trolls how much of an effect their trolling has on you. Maybe instead of making them feel GOOD, it will make them feel bad and they’ll stop.

    And see if you can blow it up to a seven minute whinefest. That’s great.

  201. money said 2 days later:

    In context, what did this guy actually said?

  202. 210 said 2 days later:

    210… Amazing.

  203. konjak said 3 days later:

    Okay, this was pretty juvenile, repetitious and unfunny.

    You come to expect where you get these kinds of comments and you should learn to filter them out rather than go nuts about them. If you get constructive critisism, you’ll notice it.

    And if you’re annoyed by the fact you’re not getting any, go to something like the forums here, or another decent forum to specifically ask for feedback for your game. How hard can that be?

    If people are anonymous over at some site with your game on it and a comments section, they’ll be jerks. The end.

  204. Paul Eres said 3 days later:

    “In my not-humble opinion, the video fails by being too long, too repetitive, and not witty or cutting enough.”

    And that’s fine, but there are people who were entertained by it, so to say it’s not entertaining just because you didn’t find it entertaining is still a bald-faced lie.

  205. Anonymous said 4 days later:

    Is this video a cry for help?

  206. Mr. Scapetti said 5 days later:

    Now I just feel bad for wasting my time telling people these games are great when everyone clearly already knows that. “This gam is gr8, i posst on the intern3t”

  207. Pen said 6 days later:

    Gosh-darnit Konjak, did you just say that this video has flaws and isn’t as good as people on the internet think it is!?

  208. Lucien said 6 days later:

    “And that’s fine, but there are people who were entertained by it, so to say it’s not entertaining just because you didn’t find it entertaining is still a bald-faced lie.”

    Mmh, and saying that something is entertaining just because you find it entertaining is also a bald-faced lie.

    With subjective media such as this, there is no objective truth. So one can only say what they thought of it by way of personal opinion. One would rationally think that that’s what everyone is doing.

    To me, I wept inside as it looked like a developer having a nervous breakdown*, which I really don’t find very funny at all. Sorry.

    • I’ve seen some come perilously close to that on forums, and sometimes I just wish they’d stay away from Internet communtiies, or just stick to the good ones, because they’re better off doing what makes them happy and making good games, rather than letting what some mendicant on the Internet thinks of them bothter them.

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